Brad Schoonmaker on 23/8/2009 at 17:29
See, I knew you could sum it up.:thumb:
Seriously, I tried to express my own frustration with ignorant crusaders using some tact, but then why? I just come off sounding like a believer, I guess.
I have no doubt that both sides are pissing at each other sometimes, but I just don't care enough to reason out the truth of what's being talked about on news show and such. Why is it left to entertainment media to spread the information needed to form opinions, anyway? In a better world, I'd get the facts and just move with it.
Thief13x on 24/8/2009 at 15:08
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
But that takes A) time
That is most definitely a source of alot of the tantrums (or was, now they're without excuse :D), and while there are certainly borderline conspiracy-theory wack jobs in the crowd, there's alot of less obnoxious folk who have simply grown weary of the government telling us to just "trust it." I respect the time you took to make that analogy, but you're not going to persuade me by comparing ice cream stands to a bill that my grandkids will be paying off.
Matthew on 24/8/2009 at 15:28
Quote Posted by Thief13x
a bill that my grandkids will be paying off.
I've always wondered about this kind of sentiment. Are some sections of American society really that concerned with balancing their chequebook, so to speak?
CCCToad on 24/8/2009 at 16:02
Quote Posted by Matthew
I've always wondered about this kind of sentiment. Are some sections of American society really that concerned with balancing their chequebook, so to speak?
Its a fear thats working its way into mainstream.
Its because the US debt is getting so large compared to GDP that it poses a risk of causing very high inflation in a short period of time (hyperinflation). If enough money to cover it is printed, that would be a likely result.
Another concern is political. On the domestic side, corporations own large portions of the US debt, which is an obvious corruption risk. Foreign governments also own a large portion of the US debt, with the top ones being japan and China, a country which has funded islamic insurgents throughout the middle east(Read the book "Dragon days, time for unconventional tactics"). source:(
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17424874/ns/business-personal_finance/)
And for those of you who think this is just coming from crazy conservatives:
Quote:
But relying on foreign governments to maintain our standard of living also comes with certain risks. Sen. Hillary Clinton told CNBC last week she sees “a slow erosion of our economic sovereignty,” and she singled out China's big holdings of Treasury debt as an example
As my MSNBC.com colleague Tom Curry wrote last week, Clinton is making America's dependence on Chinese investors a central theme of her 2008 presidential campaign. When people ask her why the U.S. doesn't get tougher with China on issues like trade, she says, her response has been: “How do you get tough on your banker?"
Source is same as above, 2nd page.
heywood on 24/8/2009 at 16:35
You jumped right into fear mongering, ignoring the most obvious issue.
The main problem with growing public debt is the same as growing personal debt: affording the payments. This year, the federal government is going to spend something like $460B on debt interest payments, and as long as we keep running deficits that keeps going up and crowding out other budget priorities.
DDL on 24/8/2009 at 16:49
Also, pretty sure china isn't unique in funding islamic insurgents. At all.
Oh wait, it's only bad when they do it, right? :D
CCCToad on 24/8/2009 at 19:03
Quote Posted by heywood
You jumped right into fear mongering, ignoring the most obvious issue.
The main problem with growing public debt is the same as growing personal debt: affording the payments. This year, the federal government is going to spend something like $460B on debt interest payments, and as long as we keep running deficits that keeps going up and crowding out other budget priorities.
I didn't ignore that issue, i said that it will be difficult to pay the debt back without causing high inflation. If anything, I was being less scaremongering by not even getting to the interest. That only makes the situation worse.
And yes, i am well aware that we have funded islamists as well. The statement was intended to be one of fact, and not a moral judgement.And even if the use of proxy wars is unethical(which I believe it is) that point doesn't affect my argument of why having china own US debt is bad for the US.. The point is that America is beholden to nations that have amply demonstrated they are not friendly to their interests, and its not a good position to be in for any country.
Since quippy straw dog arguments seem to be in fashion nowadays, how do you reconcile a belief that the US government's foreign policy is malicious and takes advantage of the weak with the belief that this time, they really want whats best for us? After all, its not like they've ever claimed that before.
Muzman on 24/8/2009 at 20:11
I think you answered that yourself; if you're rating complex government policy matters in completely different areas on some vague sense of percieved ill will and extrapolating that to everything you'd be a terribly silly person wouldn't you.
CCCToad on 24/8/2009 at 21:21
Quote Posted by Muzman
I think you answered that yourself; if you're rating complex government policy matters in completely different areas on some vague sense of percieved ill will and extrapolating that to everything you'd be a terribly silly person wouldn't you.
I'm not rating different policies, I'm staying in an un-tactful way that I believe the ethics of the american government have been severely lacking, which is an issue that cuts across all policies they make.
Muzman on 24/8/2009 at 21:31
Which entails applying justifiable mistrust over past foreign policy to, so far, poorly demonstrated mistrust over tabled healthcare reform bills.
Or did I miss something?
