Shug on 30/10/2009 at 01:23

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Having pretty much the entire younger generation trained but not costing the country by being part of a standing army is a reasonably useful thing for natural disaster recovery, even if the risk of invasion is extremely low. I imagine it's decent for morale among the general public as well. It really wasn't that long ago that the threat was squarely there, as Muz noted.

Personally I wouldn't really mind being required to do some kind of compulsory service, but it's understandably not ideal for a large amount of people.

I daresay upping the schooling years isn't quite what I would describe as "fascist" - ill advised, perhaps. When it comes to the state serving its citizens though, one could certainly postulate that the UK has gone too far in that direction already. As I understand it, there are already second generation moochers who were brought up living in council flats with parents who were capable but never worked a day, or perhaps even had their alcohol/drug habits supported by public funds.

Shug on 30/10/2009 at 02:14

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scots heil

Gryzemuis on 30/10/2009 at 02:53

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Hang in there, Kuuso. I think I know how you feel. I agree that it is a modern version of slavery.

I've been in the army. I can tell you great stories about my time in there ....

Now. At the time I wasn't pleased at all. At the time it was one of the most unpleasant experiences in my life. It only becomes fun after you are out.


The Netherlands used to have compulsory military service. 15 Months in the army, or 24 months civil service. When I stopped my studies Computer Science, I had to go in the army. They decided I need to become a truck driver. (I already had my normal driver's license). Everybody was congrulating me on getting a free truck driver's license ! What the fuck ? A free license I won't use anyway, in return for 15 months of slavery ? I decided to not do the 24 months of replacement duty. Because I didn't oppose the system because I didn't want to kill people. I was opposed because I didn't agree wityh modern slavery.

So I went to the army base on a Monday. Got my uniform and all that crap. I asked for conversations with the minister, a shrink, etc. They said "you'll get used to it, behave like a man". I was 24 at the time, in a group of all 18 year old kids, fresh away from mommy. Almost all of them had hardly any education. On Thursday night I went home, and came back on Monday. That was desertation. I had to see the highest officer of the place. He agreed with me, but I had to stay. He promised me that I could talk to some people. The minister and the shrink again said "deal with it". So in the 3rd week, on Tuesday, I said "guys, go grab dinner, I'll be there in a few minutes". I left the base and took the bus home. Second time I deserted.

My plan was this. I had heard two stories about people deserting the army. One friend of mine. And one brother of a neighbor. They both deserted in October-November, they both got arrested in early December. They both went to prison for 1-2 weeks. And both of them were released a few days before Christmas. And they got no further punishment. I was in the army in November. So I decided to do the same thing, stay under water for a few weeks, and get arrested in December. They tried to force my friend to sign a paper stating that he was "mentally unstable". He said "fuck you, I'm not signing that". And a few hours later he could leave prison, without signing anything. So that was my plan, couldn't go wrong ! :)

The army didn't know where I lived. I told them "you guys force me to be here, then the army base is my address". After a day they sent a telegram to my parents. My dad called the camp's highest officer. He told them that my family had a "problem with authority". Because of the war (my dad and his family had been in a Japanese concentration camp in Indonesia). I didn't know anything about this. The Captain told my dad I should come back to the base before the military police caught me. So my dad called me, and the next day I went back to the base.

I had to stay 4 more weeks in the Army. I didn't get my truck driver's license. The paperwork just took a long time. But then I could go home. Before Christmas. Honorable Discharge. No negative side effects. My uncles and aunts told me I could now never get a job with the authorities. My first 2 jobs were with the state authorities. :)

A few years later, compulsary military service was stopped in the Netherlands.

I am OK with the idea that people should do something for their country. But compulsory military service is pure randomness. After I got out of the army I learned that most people had dodged the draft by getting their doctors to give them some semi-false document how they had a bad back or something. Women don't need to go in the army. If you have 2 older brothers, you don't need to go in the army (regardless whether your brothers were in it or not). If you have heavy hay-fever, you can get out. Only dumb kids, who don't pay attention, like myself, get fucked over and are forced to live and work in a terrible situation for 1-2 years.

And you can bet your arse that the laws that require compulsory drafts were made by old rich fat old guys, who never have been in the army themselves. Who know how to keep their own kids out of the army. Those are the ones talking about "honorably serving your country". My ass.

Kuuso. I am sure there are organizations in Finland that can help and advice you. Find out what the best way is to get out of the army. Probably faking a medical condistion. Your back. Or fake depression. Anything. Just get out by any means. You are getting fucked over. A little dishonesty is well justified.

And don't listen to the people who think you're a whiner. Most of them probably never served in the army. And the ones who did, and maybe even served in the army during a war, they probably have a hard time accepting the fact that they had their lives on the line. While the people who sent them over, and their families all stayed home, safe and sound.

This post got longer that I wanted. As usual. Sorry about that. But it's not written for Deathtol or others to flame me. I hope it helps you Kuuso. Get the hell out of there, by any means.

Starrfall on 30/10/2009 at 03:30

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all I know is that I know a lot of people who would benefit by getting up early and having their asses kicked all day

Koki on 30/10/2009 at 08:52

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If all countries had compulsory military service the world would be a much better place.