Kuuso on 29/10/2009 at 14:15
Quote Posted by henke
Human rights?
...
Ok, human rights, despite the name, is not a
right. It's not something you can take for granted, you know? We can all claim it's our human right not to have to take army service and then when we get invaded what happens to the rights we've set for ourselves? Human rights is something that you actively need to work for and, if need be, fight to protect. We live in an independent country because people made these sacrifices for us.
Not trying to sound overly patriotic here, these things just seem like they should be perfectly obvious to anyone.
I guess I should have said
invidual rights. As far as I see the matter, our veterans "sacrificed" (not much option) themselves so we wouldn't have to. What is their work worth, if we cling onto age-old methods?
I have immense respect for veterans and anyone who fought in the wars, but it has nothing do with, if we should have mandatory army service or not.
Do remember that I am not going for abolishing of military here.
Aerothorn on 29/10/2009 at 14:15
Quote Posted by henke
Ok, human rights, despite the name, is not a
right.
Sure it is. You can argue that freedom from conscription is not a human right, but the whole idea of RIGHTS (versus privileges) is that they are inalienable.
Quote Posted by henke
We can all claim it's our human right not to have to take army service and then when we get invaded what happens to the rights we've set for ourselves?
And that's what I'm missing here. Get invaded by whom? Russia? Now?
AR Master on 29/10/2009 at 14:43
waaaaaaah my country which has fed me clothed me and housed me from birth and granted me rights not even heard of in other places in the world wants me to give back by helping build my character learn how to defend ourselves from the slavs
waaaaaaaah guys dont you know that the finnish army is synonymous with torture and mayhem why cant we all just get along they wont let me choose basketweaving as an alternative this is awful!!!!
man up bucko. the army will put hair on your chest so learn to enjoy it
Kuuso on 29/10/2009 at 15:03
Quote Posted by AR Master
waaaaaaah my country which has fed me clothed me and housed me from birth and granted me rights not even heard of in other places in the world wants me to give back by helping build my character learn how to defend ourselves from the slavs
waaaaaaaah guys dont you know that the finnish army is synonymous with torture and mayhem why cant we all just get along they wont let me choose basketweaving as an alternative this is awful!!!!
man up bucko. the army will put hair on your chest so learn to enjoy it
Nah, you forgot I chose civil service, meaning that I'm ending up as an anarchistic gay drug-user. Won't be capable of growing hair anywhere :(
AR Master on 29/10/2009 at 15:10
except in filthy dreads
the only way to redeem yourself is to volunteer for mine sweeping duty with a toothpick to stick into the ground. come back from that and you'll be a finnish legend just like
The Alchemist on 29/10/2009 at 15:18
Quote Posted by AR Master
except in filthy dreads
the only way to redeem yourself is to volunteer for mine sweeping duty with a toothpick to stick into the ground. come back from that and you'll be a finnish legend just like
Just like (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) White Death?
henke on 29/10/2009 at 16:23
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
Sure it is. You can argue that freedom from conscription is not a human right, but the whole idea of RIGHTS (versus privileges) is that they are inalienable.
I'm fuzzy on the terminology so maybe it's a privilege and not a right. But regardless I think you(and everyone else) got my point: you can't take human rights for granted.
Quote Posted by Aerothorn
And that's what I'm missing here. Get invaded by whom? Russia? Now?
It was a hypothetical example.
Quote Posted by Kuuso
our veterans "sacrificed" themselves so we wouldn't have to. What is their work worth, if we cling onto age-old methods?
It was worth it so we can go on living free. However, in order to ensure the freedom of future generations we must keep on sacrificing a year, or half a year of our lives to keep an army ready to mobilize in order to keep potential invaders at bay. We have a pretty good thing going on here in Finland so I don't think that's an unreasonable sacrifice. You say we could keep a just as effective army by converting to a volunteer system but I think that's wishful thinking.
Kolya on 29/10/2009 at 16:28
If you're talking about the however hypothetical example of war, I think an army of professional soldiers will certainly be more effective than a few youths without experience who just wanted to get a pilot's license cheaply and never expected this to get serious.
AR Master on 29/10/2009 at 16:43
i dunno it worked out okay for the germans
dvrabel on 29/10/2009 at 16:48
Quote Posted by Kuuso
The thing is though, at some point you need to use 6-12 months of your life practicing things that aren't necessarily of any use to you for a nominal compensation.
If it's any consolation you probably won't use much of what you learn in university either.
