SeriousCallersOnly on 26/6/2013 at 14:56
(
http://www.officialplaystationmagazine.co.uk/2013/06/25/thiefs-slow-mo-combat-designed-to-let-you-get-the-fck-out-old-fighting-system-tested-but-doesnt-work/)
Quote:
Roy says the combat was a big challenge for Eidos Montréal. Early in development the studio playtested the old game’s original style of more direct fighting. “A lot of people, a menagerie of people, told us okay, ‘it doesn’t work. Ten years later, that type of gameplay doesn’t work’, said Roy. “I don’t know if you remember with the previous game? Let’s say I’ve been detected; it was really, really tough to survive. You know? It was unforgiving. Game over”.
[...]
“How do we design something [so] that you will feel you can protect yourself, but at the same time I don’t want to see you going into the middle of the garden, into the light, and [unsheathing sword sound] “come on, man!”. That, says Roy unsurprisingly, doesn’t work either.
[...]
Thief project lead Stephane Roy has been explaining more about the PS4 stealth game’s new combat. The bullet-time, QTE-based system is one of the biggest departures from the series’ canon but according to Roy it was changed after playtest feedback that the old swordplay, “didn’t work”.
[video=youtube;yoGA573wh8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoGA573wh8Q[/video]
Astro Zombie on 26/6/2013 at 15:20
Jesus Christ, this is making Deadly Shadows look like a masterpiece in comparison!
Tomi on 26/6/2013 at 15:39
Well, the combat in old Thief did pretty much suck, so if they manage to screw that up now, then there's not much hope for this new game. :p
“I don't know if you remember with the previous game? Let's say I've been detected; it was really, really tough to survive. You know? It was unforgiving. Game over”.
It was never "really tough to survive", normally things just got boring and awkward when you got spotted. It wasn't "game over" time, it was "quick load" time, unfortunately. And that's something that in my opinion really needs to be fixed in the new Thief.
Springheel on 26/6/2013 at 15:49
Ignoring the parts where Roy craps on the original games (it's _supposed_ to be "really tough" if you get detected and wind up in combat), I actually like this description of their intent: "Don't try to kill them, just try to push them or make sure they are disabled," he said. "Don't finish the job, just get the f*** out."
I would love to see a "shove and run" combat system. But unfortunately that's not really how I've heard it described by anyone who has tested it so far, nor did it look that way in the combat demonstrated at E3.
Esme on 26/6/2013 at 16:16
As I said on another thread.
Yes the combat in the original games was crap, it was supposed to be an absolute last resort to give you a slim chance of survival if you did something monumentally stupid and were detected without making sure of your exit strategy.
It wasn't supposed to be an optional playstyle for the attention span impaired who just want to hack and slash through the game.
It was supposed to encourage stealthy gameplay by not guaranteeing a win in combat.
I admit it wasn't so much crap by design, it was crap because it wasn't the primary gameplay mechanic so they didn't put much effort into improving it.
So what is needed are more options for escape without confrontation, more encouragement to slow down, think about what you are doing and plan a way out just in case, not QTE "kick 'em inna fork" or focus driven "cripple and maim" routines because the player didn't think before making a move.
Don't turn combat into an alternative playstyle.
Renault on 26/6/2013 at 16:36
Right on the money there, Esme. The naysayers will claim that the original Thief games had Garrett killing guards in the intros, and swordplay in the training mission, but hand-to-hand combat was never supposed to be viable option for Garrett, only a desperation move. And LGS never would have come up with any kind of Focus system, highlighting guards weak points and slowing down time so Garrett could inflict pinpoint damage, so I don't know how anyone can justify that.
I would like to see Garrett with a "shove" type of action, mainly so he could slow down a guard just long enough to escape. Speaking of, haven't seen any sign of Flashbombs in the new game, that's really the most "thiefy" way of handling situations where you've been caught/detected.
sterlino on 26/6/2013 at 16:45
...for God's sake !
...this is suppose to be a Stealth game and IT MEANS NO combat.
why it's so difficult to understand ?
that should be the last thing to think about it.. EM what the @#'/*§% !!!!
Esme on 26/6/2013 at 16:54
Nice comment on the site
Quote:
Kiron says:
05:52am June 26 2013
I have... no words.
Actually I do. Have these people played a Thief game in their entire lives? Do they understand that Thief is a hardcore stealth game where you are not supposed to be able to fight enemies face to face?
Thanks for reminding me to stay the hell away from this title.
Gets a :thumb: from me
Tomi on 26/6/2013 at 16:54
Quote Posted by Brethren
hand-to-hand combat was never supposed to be viable option for Garrett, only a desperation move.
What makes it a non-viable option in your opinion? It might be boring as hell, yes, and it might feel a bit like cheating, and while sniping guards with your bow from a safe distance would still be more effective, the sword is a very powerful weapon as well. Not that I've ever tried it (for reasons mentioned before) but I can't imagine hacking and slashing your way through most of the game to be too difficult (obviously that doesn't apply to all enemies). After years of playing many of us have become very good players, and the best players excel at stuff like ghosting and would never even think about killing a guard. But that doesn't make it the
right way to play the game.
Quote Posted by sterlino
...this is suppose to be a Stealth game and IT MEANS NO combat.
And what do you do when you get caught and there's no way to escape?
Quote Posted by Esme
"Do they understand that Thief is a hardcore stealth game where you are not supposed to be able to fight enemies face to face?"Gets a :thumb: from me
But... but... fighting (most of the) enemies face to face was almost ridiculously easy in the older games? :confused:
sterlino on 26/6/2013 at 17:08
Quote Posted by Tomi
And what do you do when you get caught and there's no way to escape?
YOU FAIL ! ...and die..:grr:
:sweat:
.....
...Or simply use a flashbomb :idea:
:mad::mad::mad:
