SubJeff on 11/2/2014 at 07:05
That has no relevance to this.
Jason Moyer on 11/2/2014 at 10:42
It's been 10 years, I can't say I care one way or another about story continuity, although I'll appreciate whatever nods to prior games they put in there. Besides, the original Garrett story wrapped up nicely when the trilogy ended. I'm fine with EM rebooting his character arc while using the previous games to fill in some of the details of his past where they feel it's appropriate.
Platinumoxicity on 11/2/2014 at 15:17
Quote Posted by NuEffect
That has no relevance to this.
...By all means keep telling yourself without any justification that anything anyone else says that you disagree with has no merit. :tsktsk: It has all the relevance to this. You can see the entire Stonemarket in relation to the size of the full City. The equivalent for DXHR would have been if the Sarif plaza was clearly depicted as an area 1/5th of the city of Detroit. It wasn't. Its size in relation to the rest of the city was undefined, which kept Detroit as large as it actually is, without the level designers actually having to model the entire city. In Thief, the landmarks you can visit are defining the size of the rest of the City, which makes the City really small. You can actually take the screenshots of the Auldale bridge, and based on its proportions calculate very accurately the diameter of the whole City.
...and you don't even need to do that to approximate that it no longer falls under the description "sprawling metropolis" but rather under "town". But since this game is a reboot, I guess there's no reason why it can't be set in a village inexplicably called "The City".
Anyone who has played TES I Arena will tell you that the province of Cyrodiil in TES IV Oblivion is nowhere near as large as it was in the first game. In Oblivion the place is a moderately sized valley. In Arena the game calculated the distances traveled in the province in weeks. You couldn't actually see the hundreds of leagues worth of wilderness as you moved through it, but it was all there regardless. In Oblivion, the fact that the province was fully connected as a persistent area, combined with scarcity of development resources, produced a miniature.
SubJeff on 11/2/2014 at 15:53
Okay, I see I have to explain it like you're 5.
The size of the picture of the city or the map is entirely inconsequential to the size of in game maps. There is nothing (not even a flock of demon crows) stopping a mapper making the in game Stonemarket 5 miles wide and 10 miles long, even if on a picture of the map (like the one posted in the OP) it is shown being much smaller than that.
The relative sizes of TES regions has nothing to do with a concept map that is kicking about somewhere and everything to do with how the actual region was mapped out.
This isn't me just disagreeing with you, this is you not understanding that unless a map picture is actually a design document it is not related to the size of the in game space.
Please tell me you understand this. Please. And if you don't, please can someone else help me out here?
Specter on 11/2/2014 at 16:32
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
...You can see the entire Stonemarket in relation to the size of the full City. The equivalent for DXHR would have been if the Sarif plaza was clearly depicted as an area 1/5th of the city of Detroit. It wasn't. Its size in relation to the rest of the city was undefined, which kept Detroit as large as it actually is, without the level designers actually having to model the entire city. In Thief, the landmarks you can visit are defining the size of the rest of the City, which makes the City really small. You can actually take the screenshots of the Auldale bridge, and based on its proportions calculate very accurately the diameter of the whole City.
Wouldn't that only be correct if you were working from a map that was drawn to scale? The maps we see here are artistic, not scientific.
DadaFish on 11/2/2014 at 18:55
Quote Posted by Brethren
Then of course there's Garrett's non-mechanical magic eye, and the fact that South and Old Quarter have suddenly switched positions, and Basso's a fence, and Jenivere's a bird, and there's no sign of the Pagans or the Hammerites, and so on. It's a reboot. Any similarities to the originals are homages, and the devs have said as much.
Garrett still has a mechanic eye. Why can't Basso be a fence? Presumably he named it after her.
And wouldn't the presence of Pagans make it a reboot. The plot of both LGS Thiefs is about the advent of modernity, and the death of the old. The Trickster is dead, Victoria is dead, and the Pagans were murdered by the Mechanists. They're all gone now. DS randomly brought them back, which I suppose is explicable, but it never really was in keeping with the spirit of the story. Constantly revivifying them IS rebooting the story of both LGS games out. It also is completely undercutting any of the tragedy of those stories. It's like "The Death of Sherlock Holmes".
Only DS had this "gotta have pagans and mechanists" thing. The Metal Age introduced sidelined Hammerites, introduced Mechanists, and drastically altered the world, letting the story continue rather than just spinning it's wheels like DS with some monster of the week plot. Which is precisely why it's a much better game. Thief is supposed to be a vehicle for telling new, different stories, about the continuing promises and costs of change visible in the constantly altered setting. It has to move on or it's not Thief.
Renault on 11/2/2014 at 20:17
I'll grant you that Basso may have moved up in the world to be a fence, but Garrett's eye is not mechanical, from what we've seen so far. It's given special abilities by the ritual from the beginning of the game, but it's still his eye.
There's no evidence that the Pagans were wiped out by the Mechanists at the end of T2 - yes they were fighting each other but I doubt Viktoria was the only Pagan left before she walked into Soulforge to take on Karras. The end of TDS clearly showed the Hammerites and Pagans were alive and well as strong factions, both having gotten their prized artifacts back. If this were a true sequel, both factions would likely still be alive and kicking to some degree.
DadaFish on 11/2/2014 at 20:51
Quote Posted by Brethren
I'll grant you that Basso may have moved up in the world to be a fence, but Garrett's eye is not mechanical, from what we've seen so far. It's given special abilities by the ritual from the beginning of the game, but it's still his eye.
Originally Posted by scumm
How does the zoom work? Is it connected to a mechanical eye, to the focus ability, or is there just no explanation (I guess Garrett is just squinting)?
Originally Posted by The Tingler
Not explained, but it's clearly his mechanical eye. The view even goes slightly "metally", and you can use it before you get the Focus ability.
Renzatic on 11/2/2014 at 20:56
Quote Posted by Brethren
There's no evidence that the Pagans were wiped out by the Mechanists at the end of T2 - yes they were fighting each other but I doubt Viktoria was the only Pagan left before she walked into Soulforge to take on Karras. The end of TDS clearly showed the Hammerites and Pagans were alive and well as strong factions, both having gotten their prized artifacts back. If this were a true sequel, both factions would likely still be alive and kicking to some degree.
Not necessarily. 10 or more years have passed since the ending of the last game and this one. A lot can, and apparently has, change in that long of a time span.
Renault on 11/2/2014 at 20:57
Quote Posted by DadaFish
Originally Posted by The Tingler
Not explained, but it's clearly his mechanical eye. The view even goes slightly "metally", and you can use it before you get the Focus ability.
Huh. I previously read that bit you quoted, but I don't think I read it closely enough. So they're saying he has a mechanical eye even
before the ritual. That's interesting. I wonder if they'll ever reference how he got it in the first place. I guess all will be come more clear in two weeks.
