DadaFish on 10/2/2014 at 18:39
They said "soft-reboot". I think that means that it'll be recognizably a sequel, but only if you played the originals. And they weren't going to get hung up on things like the exact placement of Southquarter. The Keeper library, for example, is in Thief 4, now in ruins, and much of the layout apparently is copied as well.
We'll see when the game comes out. I think if Eidos gives a different explanation for the mechanical eye, we call it a reboot. If not, a sequel.
TriangleTooth on 10/2/2014 at 18:40
If it was a sequel there'd need to be at least a footnote saying the clocktower was rebuilt.
Renault on 10/2/2014 at 18:48
EM has never said "soft reboot." But a reboot is a reboot. You're allowed to have things like a trashed Keeper Library, even with the same exact layout, and it's fine. For every thing that's similar like that, you can have something equally dissimilar. Like a completely undamaged clocktower. Or switching the location of entire districts.
And there's already been an explanation for Garrett's Eye - it's changed somehow from the ritual at the beginning of the game, but it hasn't been removed or replaced.
Platinumoxicity on 10/2/2014 at 18:48
Ooo look at that tiny miniature little Cityling.
Taff. At least Deadly Shadows had the courtesy of showing cityscape all the way to the borders of the map, to mask the undefined continuation of the metropolis beyond its borders. I didn't think it was possible to make the City seem smaller than that game did, but EM managed to pull it off.
june gloom on 10/2/2014 at 18:51
Quote Posted by Brethren
We know enough about the "beginning" - TDP mentions that Garrett has "no parents, no home." The new Thief app also mentions that Garrett was an orphan. These two beginnings are identical, but that doesn't preclude it from being a reboot. In a reboot you can have both similar and completely different events at different points along the timeline. The slate is clean, you can do whatever you want, with no obligations from prior entries in the series.
Right, at least that's what the logic behind New 52 was. Many details were kept or altered, others were removed or replaced. The trick is to embrace the concept of Broad Strokes Continuity, in which we accept that certain events happened, but details aren't exactly how we remember it. Sometimes it works (Green Lantern seems to be pulling it off with minimal changes, with only the little niggling detail of Death/Return of Superman still being important to Green Lantern history but not completely making sense in the new Superman history) and sometimes it doesn't (the Batman timeline is just a mess with so much removed and everything else compressed into a too-short period of time.)
It's still a reboot, but with important background details left in. Another smaller example would be how Bethesda treats Fallout Tactics in the scope of the wider Fallout canon, in which they state that it happened, just not how it was portrayed in the game. In the scope of the series, what went on in FOT is a footnote compared to the storyline in 1/2/NV, or what appears to be the new storyline emerging from 3/4, and has very little bearing on any of the main games, so they could have excised it completely -- but they didn't. It still happened, but the smaller details don't matter while the macro-events do (Brotherhood establishment in Chicago, etc.) This actually enables them to keep FOT in the canon while avoiding the issue of FOT itself contradicting canon in some spots. Of course, the PS2/Xbox1 game Brotherhood of Steel has been jettisoned entirely. There's no fixing that mess.
SubJeff on 10/2/2014 at 21:04
Brethren, you'd be right if it didn't seem that some of the features of the city exist in an older form than before (like the library and the island), if it weren't for the fact that the Erin is clearly supposed to be the girl from Thief 3, and if it weren't for the Keeper and Mechanist nods seeming like hints at times gone by.
Everything points to Thief 1, 2 and 3 having happened in the past.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
At least Deadly Shadows had the courtesy of showing cityscape all the way to the borders of the map, to mask the undefined continuation of the metropolis beyond its borders. I didn't think it was possible to make the City seem smaller than that game did, but EM managed to pull it off.
Come on man, be serious. There are a lot of things to complain about other than this concept art/maps dimensions and whether it fills the whole viewport. Of all the moans I've heard about Thief this is without a doubt the most petty.
As to the clocktower being rebuilt - isn't that a given. Or is it common practice to leave cities in ruin?
DadaFish on 10/2/2014 at 21:25
Quote Posted by TriangleTooth
If it was a sequel there'd need to be at least a footnote saying the clocktower was rebuilt.
(
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AWizardDidIt)
You know, the City of London, by comparison, is only one square mile. I don't think Americans that anything before autos and trams is going to be extremely compact.
Renault on 10/2/2014 at 21:29
Then of course there's Garrett's non-mechanical magic eye, and the fact that South and Old Quarter have suddenly switched positions, and Basso's a fence, and Jenivere's a bird, and there's no sign of the Pagans or the Hammerites, and so on. It's a reboot. Any similarities to the originals are homages, and the devs have said as much.
Platinumoxicity on 10/2/2014 at 21:40
Quote Posted by NuEffect
Come on man, be serious. There are a lot of things to complain about other than this concept art/maps dimensions and whether it fills the whole viewport. Of all the moans I've heard about Thief this is without a doubt the most petty.
FYI this is a subject that people were discussing 10 years ago too. It's perfectly valid to bring up the fact that the mistake was repeated and even made worse. Thief 1 and 2 didn't connect City districts directly, and never revealed the City limits. That gave the City an undefined, large scale. It made it a place that could actually include the areas of all fan missions ever made. Deadly Shadows connected the districts, but they were incredibly small. The fact that South Quarter was between Stonemarket and the Docks, literally made the entire district about 200m wide. But at least you coulnd't see the City limits. Which meant that any district in the edges of the playable area might have just been tiny corners of that district, focused on areas around the Failsafe, and the real districts could have been much larger, and could have had more districts beyond them.
But Thief 4 is now showing real-scale landmarks in a wide shot of the entire City, with a clear view of the wilderness surrounding it. That means that there is no mystery anymore. No lack of definition. The City in Thief 4 doesn't just look small like in TDS. It actually is tiny. That is a real issue. You don't get to downplay everything you disagree with.
Jason Moyer on 10/2/2014 at 21:56
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
It made it a place that could actually include the areas of all fan missions ever made.
I have to admit, that's my #1 concern.