hopper on 12/12/2007 at 18:45

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I prefer the term "Son of God, father of God knows". :cool:

jtr7 on 12/12/2007 at 20:51

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And there were terrible consequences! Taking it out of context, again.:nono:

The bible was written for PEOPLE, it shows people being evil and the consequences of many of those evils lasting forever. Every time a person doubts God's promises, or fears for their future and makes rash decisions, there are terrible consequences. Cause and effect.

Every time a person is described as drunk, their actions have consequences.

Parental Guidance is strongly suggested! A mature understanding of the text qualifies a parent to decide how and WHEN to speak of these matters. Children should be encouraged to question all they experience, and be taught how to self-educate.

You guys make it sound like one can open any book on any shelf read a piece of a paragraph and determine the bigger picture. You make it sound like children aren't exposed to worse things than the bible, like the best friend's older brother's porn collection, and the fat father that likes to walk around naked--and no moral to the story.

catbarf on 12/12/2007 at 21:56

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That's my point. People who just give it to their children and say 'Memorize this' are doing something very wrong. But one more thing- you say this:



Yet before you said this:



So children should be encouraged to question everything (questioning = doubt) and in doing so suffer terrible consequences?

jtr7 on 13/12/2007 at 02:25

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Thanks Spaztic.

catbarf: Questioning as in wanting more information. Not the questioning you're engaged in, where learning is impossible. Learning by asking questions for clarification and understanding of a broader meaning, in its full context, including historical and cultural context. Otherwise one's perceptions are only loosely based on that part that stood out.

Questioning with words and concepts, not by acting things out.

Parents need to do their part, that's for damned sure. They're supposed to be guiding their children into adulthood, so they will have the skills to deal with life. How to read a book and understand context and theme should be one of many skills. The bible needs critical thinking to grasp properly. It's called a "sword" for a reason. It's often mishandled by clods trained by clods. There are far too many amateurs cutting people down.

Train our kids to seek knowledge, look deeper, adjust and fine-tune perceptions, see the lessons life offers each moment, and on and on....

__________________________________

A righteous man is still a sinner, catbarf. All Lot did wrong in these verses is allow himself to get sloshed. The daughters, however, caused major problems.

Ge 19:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and lived in the mountain, and his two daughters with him. For he feared to live in Zoar, and he and his two daughters lived in a cave.
31 And the first-born said to the younger, Our father is old, and there is no man in the earth to come in to us in the way of all the earth.
32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, so that we may preserve seed of our father.
33 And they made their father drink wine that night. And the first-born went in, and lay with her father. And he did not notice when she lay down nor when she arose.
34 And it happened on the next day, the first-born said to the younger, Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine this night also, and you go in and lie down with him so that we may preserve seed of our father.
35 And they made their father drink wine that night also, and the younger arose and lay with him. And he did not notice when she lay down nor when she arose.
36 So both the daughters of Lot were with child by their father.
37 And the first-born bore a son, and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day.
38 And the younger also bore a son, and called his name Ben-ammi; he is the father of the sons of Ammon to this day.

Shug on 14/12/2007 at 03:44

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I prefer the simpler "children should be seen and not heard", but either works