Fingernail on 8/2/2010 at 17:02
Yeah, there's no way they can be binding. Still, I expect they can have a pretty powerful hold over the community.
SD on 8/2/2010 at 17:24
Quote Posted by DDL
But are they actually legally recognized? The impression I get is they're essentially
by crazy hardliners,
for crazy hardliners.
They are, essentially, civil arbitration panels with the same rights and responsibilities as the Jewish Beth Din courts that have existed here for more than a century.
The way things work in this country or, indeed, pretty much any other democracy, is that if two people willingly enter into an agreement to abide by the decision of one of these courts, then that's their business. And so long as no criminal laws are broken, it doesn't really matter a jot whether it's Imam Yusuf bin Sheikh or Judge Wapner presiding over the thing.
CCCToad on 8/2/2010 at 19:40
Really, I think people are reading far too much into this.
Cherie Blair is simply a little bit nuts. not sure what else there is to say about that specific case in question.
Vernon on 8/2/2010 at 23:34
*stabs fragony with a kirpan*
demagogue on 8/2/2010 at 23:42
Well to be fair, the issue isn't really look how nuts C. Blair is being here, because let's face it we all know crazier people. The issue is it getting the imprimatur of state authority; is there any check in the system to keep this from wielding the buttons and levers of state power?
One thing I'll say is that whoever said judges have researched enough they should know better than this ... The thing is that on most issues, judges are actually about the furthest out-of-the-loop on an issue (that's dealing with it as a job) as anyone dealing with that issue can get, second only to maybe journalists. The lawyers and politicians and interest groups and lobbyists on the issue, all of then will have spent years researching this one thing. But judges basically learn it as they go, case by case, with just a little superficial research that the briefs give them that they need to decide the case, which in a lot of situations IMO gives them the attitude that they can pull this kind of non-legal shenanigans as it suits them, and unless there's some really egregious abuse of authority, and there isn't a political hurdle to attack it, it's hard to make sure the checks on it work like they're supposed to. But if you took *all* the politics out of judge-appointments so they just take some test to get appointed, or decisions will be automatically invalidated if they use some non-legal argument (and who decides?), then that has its own problems and can lead to abuse in other ways ... though it sounds like an improvement in theory, anyway.
Short of that, you get it all documented and use the checks you have, and hope the appellate judge is more sympathetic, and that's usually how this stuff plays out in real life.
CCCToad on 9/2/2010 at 00:58
No, I view it as a potential issue.
It isn't going to (on its own, anyway) be indicative of a larger issue unless the ruling is allowed to stand and Cherie allowed to get away scott free.
That said, I do agree that the British court system is a little bit off, but one ruling by a celebrity judge isn't proof.
Fragony on 9/2/2010 at 08:18
Quote Posted by DDL
Because yeah, that whole attempt to get the UK working under sharia law really took off, didn't it?
There are hundreds of sharia-courts in the UK, they supposedly only do heritage and marriage stuff but there is a lot of human suffering under the surface. If a muslim girl has a problem with it, what's she gonna say, 'no I will just take regular court'? Have a nice honor killing. The UK is letting it happen because of the suffocating social control that is political correctness. There is many an archaic element to the (middle eastern) Islamic culture/religion and it's a bad place to be a minority, if you deny that you are making it an active choice to look the other way.
Namdrol on 9/2/2010 at 08:39
So Fragony, in your ultimate wisdom which you display so well, what should be done?
Fragony on 9/2/2010 at 08:54
In case of the UK I would just get the fuck out of that place.
Namdrol on 9/2/2010 at 09:05
Good, and stay the fuck out.
