Renzatic on 18/8/2017 at 05:47
Quote Posted by Vae
According to the same logic: Since George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were slave owners, therefore we should remove the Washington Monument and Jefferson Memorial...
because some people are ticked-off about that.
The difference between Washington and Jefferson, and those portrayed in Confederate statue form is that the former group were products of their time, while the latter liked it so much, they rebelled against the country, and fought a war that ended up killing more Americans than WWII.
I don't want to whitewash our history, but I can understand why some people might find the Beauregard Buford "Darkie Hanger" Johnson Centennial Children's Play Park (you know, the one just down the street from town hall) a little distasteful.
Fafhrd on 18/8/2017 at 06:12
The products of their time argument doesn't totally fly for Washington and Jefferson, since abolitionists were common at the time, even among the Founding Fathers. Washington gets points for stipulating in his will that his slaves were to be emancipated once his wife died, as well as provisions for education and employment of the freed slaves.
Jefferson, on the other hand, was a dick.
That said: founding a country earns people monuments in that country, no matter what kind of assholes they may have been in life.
Engaging in a civil war against a country and losing does not earn you a monument (with the possible exception of cases where the winning side later engages in egregious human rights abuses and ultimately collapses under the weight of its own corruption).
Slasher on 18/8/2017 at 06:28
We don't know how Washington or Jefferson would have leapt if they were alive and working when Fort Sumter fell. Washington and Jefferson kept slaves, but were never confronted with the dilemma of committing treason and waging war in the name of keeping them. Not saying that absolves them, but I'd hesitate to automatically throw them in with the likes of Lee, Forrest, Pickett, Davis, and everyone else who had to choose and make their bed.
Vae on 18/8/2017 at 07:10
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
That said: founding a country earns people monuments in that country, no matter what kind of assholes they may have been in life.
I see...So that means, by your decree, the founding fathers are immune to desecration regardless of their deeds...yet, if those same deeds are perpetrated by those of American Confederate heritage, which is a fundamental part American history, they are to be removed or destroyed according to those with a minority opinion, as opposed to serving the will of the majority of Americans who wish to preserve these Confederate statues.
Renzatic on 18/8/2017 at 07:37
The question is, how does taking them out of parks and putting them in museums act to destroy history? It's not like we're burning history books, or destroying copies of Ken Burn documentaries. People are still free buy the billion and one movies available on the subject, put battle flag bumper stickers on their cars, and collect all the Civil War memorabilia they can afford.
Honestly, I could go either way on the issue, and, taken in a vacuum, it really isn't something I feel all that strongly about in general. I can understand why some want to keep them, and I can understand why others want to remove them from public spaces. What I don't understand is how it erases history in any way, especially considering the wealth of information available about the Civil War beyond these statues.
To boil the whole hoolabaloo down to its bare basics: no one wants to censor anything, but some don't think the confederates deserves a place of honor in our society.
Vae on 18/8/2017 at 07:51
Quote Posted by Renzatic
To boil the whole hoolabaloo down to its bare basics: no one wants to censor anything, but some don't think the confederates deserves a place of honor in our society.
Which is a
minority opinion.
In a democracy, the minority opinion should never be allowed to dictate actions which oppose and override the majority sentiment...as this is a corruption of the functionary will of the people.
Slasher on 18/8/2017 at 08:05
Just pretend it's the electoral college of opinion. :)
Vae on 18/8/2017 at 08:21
Even though that's irrelevant because it's not a presidential election, the margin is wide enough that even if calculated electorally by state, the majority sentiment would remain the same.
Slasher on 18/8/2017 at 08:22
Yeah, well, point is the majority doesn't always win out. Sorry. :)
Vae on 18/8/2017 at 08:29
No need to apologize to me...although, you should be concerned about the repercussions that result from this imbalance.
