Starker on 30/9/2025 at 18:50

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Yeah, he's not saying that he's glad that Kirk was killed, he's talking about people's comments who were finding the death ironic. Namely that these people are not taking pleasure in the death, but the irony of it and that this shouldn't be simplistically lumped in with celebrating Kirk's death.

But the situation you were commenting on was about the harassment of people who have been critical of Kirk. And the issue here is not that people who are celebrating the death are getting fired -- that's just ordinary mob justice that happens in the US all the time --, but that anyone even remotely critical of Kirk is being witch hunted as a coordinated campaign to the point that even government is using this as an excuse for a purge in its agencies and military.

Renault on 30/9/2025 at 20:34

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Wow, thanks for the daily dose of crazytalk from the left. I feel about 200% more justified now in saying what I said than when I originally posted it. Talk about being disconnected from reality.

But glad to know you identify so closely with the shooter.

Nicker on 1/10/2025 at 03:51

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I do? I am MAGA now? But you said I am from the crazy left. Am I so far left that I went ultra right? Like an old video game where you fly off one side of the screen and appear on the opposite side?

I'm ANTIFA! Now I'm MAGA! Now I'm ANTIFA again! Wheeeeeee. Cool trick.


Let me explain my post to you in simple, unqualified terms you might understand. I am an asshole. Kirk is a monster.

Glad to know you identify so closely with the monster. Can I add you to my sociopath list?

demagogue on 1/10/2025 at 13:21

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I'll go back to the theme I started. I think the constituency Kirk was most focusing on and most of the recent "political" shooters (Crooks the one shooting at Trump, Robinson Kirk's shooter, Jahn the "Anti-ICE" shooter in Dallas, etc.) are coming from basically the same place.

It's young largely white men that are frustrated, don't have good work or romance prospects, so the future looks bleak, loners, spend a lot of time gaming and online, into meme culture so far they're lost to real world sociology, in a spiritual crisis and crisis of meaning, not political the way it's traditionally understood since they're not reading the newspaper or writing letters to the editor... They want to lash out at the perceived sources or at least physical manifestations of their frustration.

There's the "pseudo-constructive" and "destructive" sides.

On the "destructive side", those names I mentioned, the kind of people that are writing memes on bullet casings, it's like the world is a giant meme itself, far from what you'd call a political message. They're so depoliticized it's hard to even say if they're right or left, which is why the media and forums like this have a hard time discerning their motivation.

On the pseudo-construcive side, Kirk is giving this same type of group one source to focus their frustration, DEI: You're a high class white young man that's smart and worked hard. Why should your job prospects go to an illegal or a low class loud Black woman? Then that's all tied to a religious revival. Clean your life up, receive Jesus into your heart, live to a higher standard. Have some self respect, don't be like those low class lib atheists that just want to tear this country and hard working Americans like us down... And look at their sense of entitlement, thinking they can have things handed to them without doing the work we do. (Never mind the level of entitlement & delusion it takes for them to say minorities and women are "taking their jobs" and that's the real source of their problems.)

Then there are the same kind of young white men that fall so far into despair they really don't think the game is worth it, and they directly attack the source or symbol.

I think some of them infuse their frustration towards a really specific target, but even then I don't think they're really political, White shot up the CDC because he really believed the covid vaccine made him depressed suicidal (which was coming from the vague right) and Magione shot the insurance CEO because of his inability to treat his back pain that drove him mad with a bitterness towards capitalism (which was coming from the vague left).

Anyway, my point is if one were really trying to deal with both political violence and exclusionary rhetoric coming from what we used to call the alt-right (there's a version on the identity politics left too. I think that'll be more of an issue in the future. The alt-right version is the one that's set the house on fire for the present moment. But anyway there's a version on the Left too)... all of that I think is being fed by the same basic social conditions, which in its acute form is the spiritual crisis of meaning among young largely white men, but also among younger Millennials & Gen-Z men and women...

They're terminally online, and not like forums or online media but social media, so their whole world is games, memes, and podcasts, which gives a very warped view of the world. They're not talking to people of the other sex or anybody not from their same background (people with different backgrounds, beliefs, and politics), so they don't have a realistic view of other groups but a caricature. There's a whole machine that's exploiting their situation as basically a grift, which I think explains Trump & most of MAGA. I think Kirk believed his own schtick. The talk is divisive on him because he's mixing spiritual awakening with race and gender dog whistling (not even really dog whistling; he's usually pretty explicit that it's unfair that minorities and women get a leg up when ... I mean just look at & listen to them.)

If you focus on the divisive rhetoric, it sounds from the Right like you're attacking someone genuinely talking to the spiritual crisis that's trying to get the young generation out of this crisis of meaning and constructing something positive out of their lives. And those focusing on that spiritual awakening part, those on the Left are thinking are we just going to ignore the way he talks about half the country that's not white and male?

But in any event, I think people on both sides can recognize the basic issue at the base and the need to do something about it, and that could be a unifying force. Young people are lost in this world of social media, detached from community, human contact, a stable and well-paying career going somewhere, and meaning in their lives, and it really cuts because there are fewer people getting married, having families, buying houses, in long term stable careers... Just this massive group of people bouncing through insecure jobs without much long term thinking. And it particularly affects younger men. Their turn to religion is a real thing, which could be positive, but tacking on the resentment towards minorities and women to that ... even aside from the fact that lashing out is dividing the country, it's not helping their situation like they might think it is. If you really cared about giving people a future to hope for, those are tied into systemic problems with post industrial economies, focused on services and fluid labor markets that's less secure. But also get people in human contact with one another where they're building community together that has some real meaning, in both a spiritual and material way.

Anyway, I think the way to meet the moment is to understand why Kirk is resonating so much with young men and really try to address those underlying concerns they have and try to rebuild community and stable and sustainable ways of life.

Harvester on 1/10/2025 at 14:56

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No tax cuts that benefit only the rich and no gutting of healthcare like Trump wants to do, would be things that help, although more is needed, but Trump is not interested in doing those things.