Nicker on 15/9/2025 at 12:52
The murder of Charlie Kirk is a polarizing and significant event in the USA, whichever angle you view it from.
It is poised to hijack the Truth & Reconciliation discussion so I have created a dedicated thread on the topic. I don't know if the Mods can extract and insert the CK related posts to this thread.
Thank you for your cooperation.
DuatDweller on 15/9/2025 at 16:44
It wasn't me, it was the one tranny man.
:confused:
demagogue on 15/9/2025 at 19:38
May as well catch people up to speed.
There are two narratives you're seeing on the motivation.
Of course there could be a different motivation altogether.
1. Predominant on the Right is the theory that the shooter TR was a Leftist, and somehow a trans person was involved. First it was said TR himself was a trans. That didn't pan out. Then a "trans" message was imprinted on the bullet. That didn't pan out. (TRN is the manufacturer name.) There were alleged "trans" and LGBT messages on the bullet casings: "notices, bulges, OWO, what's this?" and "If you read this, you are gay lmao". Evidently the people propping the theory are new to Internet, but anyway that's a data point. Edit: To elaborate a bit more, their theory is that of course a leftist LGBT person or ally would ridicule the bump in a m2f trans person's pants and crack a gay lmao joke. I'd think it's the exact opposite, but that's their theory. Another bullet casing message was "Hey, fascist! Catch ↑ → ↓↓↓", the latter part a kill-everybody cheat code for a game. Evidently antifa people are the ones that call the other side fascists. (Nevermind the Right regularly calls the Left fascists, Nazis were Leftist "socialists" after all, etc.) And then they say the roommate LT is trans and in a relationship with TR. People disagree about that. He wears a furry onesie for game streams and posted an AI genned gender swap profile pic. But anyway that's a data point. The idea is CK was anti-trans, so he was killed to protect trans people like his partner. I'm reading different things about the roommate. One line says there are multiple sources confirming that LT is trans. You can look up the streams; he's furry and leans queer from a normie perspective. It's hard to say if the people calling him trans know that or that's their reflexive interpretation since they don't know what other box to put him in. Another line he was just a pre-existing suite mate in a 3 bedroom apartment that happened to be there when TN moved in, and no person with direct knowledge saying they were romantically linked. With my lawyer hat on, I'd wait out getting more data points and letting the facts shake out a bit more.
2. Predominant on the Left is that TR is a Groyper, followers of Nick Fuentes on the far right that saw CK as a sell out and threat to the movement, and they used to regularly disrupt his talks with troll questions in 2019 in what's called the Groyper War. The data points for that are some of the messages written on the bullet casings trot out common groyper lines, the lyrics to the bella ciao anthem (1940s anti fascist tune groypers coopted, granting it's still a classic anti-fascist tune), video game memes like the owo and cheat code, different pics have him wearing a Trump shirt, riding-on-Trump's-shoulder costume, and him doing an Asics jumpsuit slav squat, which is also a groyper meme. The Right narrative is saying he got woke during college, but he only took one term before dropping out, and that at home, then 3 years of trade school. He grew up Mormon in Utah. He was obsessed with guns. And he seems to have been largely depoliticized and heavy into gaming. Not too different from Crooks (who shot at Trump) actually. So the idea is groypers are black pill accellerationists. While they have disagreements with CK (not alt-right enough; wrong to even pander to leftists in deigning to debate them, etc), hence the Groyper war, the main motivation is just to burn the whole thing down, society is irredeemable and needs to collapse, come what may, and offing CK (or Trump for that matter) just accellerates the inevitable. A commentator Cy Canteral made a Tik Tok (
https://www.tiktok.com/@cybelecanterel/video/7549384885798980894) video explaining the idea. It fits the basic profile of inchoate right leaning gun- & video game-obsessed, meme-headed lost white kid that really did do it for the lulz, hence the shell casing messages. It's not something easy to explain to the old guard, but the video covers it.
So those are the two main narratives making the rounds. You can already tell that I lean towards #2, but I'm sensitive to the fact that we don't have too many data points, it's easy to fall into confirmation bias, and there could have been other motivations. But writing lol memes on shell casings just looks to me like the clear markings of a groyper meme warrior, along with the rest of the profile.
Of course a key data point is TR's relationship to LT to judge story #1. One thing that strikes me about it is that it's the 4th attempt to link the murder to a trans (following the recent trans mass shooting and efforts, e.g., for laws to ban guns to trans people, arguing that trans over represent mass shootings -- they don't, etc.) It's just a little too conveniently timed and like fishing for one trans link after another until one sticks. This meme below captures the idea.
Well there you go. You are all or should be adults so you can come to your own conclusions. That's about what I've dug up so far.
Inline Image:
https://i.ibb.co/HTHTH7z8/547632686-1093797259597010-5253089461083338380-n.jpgRenault on 15/9/2025 at 22:11
I'm going to avoid the politics here, and simply ask...what do you believe the shooter was thinking? Did he realize that once he decided to actually do this thing, his life was essentially (or possibly literally) over? He didn't seem to have much of an escape plan or any kind of thoughts about what would happen after. Often these shooters kill themselves, but he has plenty of opportunity and didn't do it. So did he really think he was going to get away with it and never be caught?
Or did he not really care about anything afterwards, and just figured whatever happened happened.
Maybe he figured that just killing the guy was the primary objective, and as long as that happened, nothing else even mattered or was worth thinking about.
It'd be great to get some answers from this guy on how these shooters think and reason, because most times they do just off themselves and we're never given an opportunity to get some type of resolution.
Usually the "why did they do it" questions are more relevant for the senseless mass shootings, but I'd be curious to know why anyone decides to consciously take the violence route as opposed to alternatives.
DuatDweller on 15/9/2025 at 23:27
So is the room mate trans or not?
Yeah I know TLDR.
This forum is slower than a L.A. Highway at peak hours traffic, stand still really.
demagogue on 16/9/2025 at 00:03
I'm gonna say he because the name Lance Twiggs is being used and no one has reported otherwise yet.
Just going by that, he's not using a differently gendered name (from his assigned gender at birth) as far as we know yet, which is usually the first sign.
But anyway, he wears a fox onesie outfit, posted a gender-swap profile picture once, you can say his face is effeminate, and there were sources saying they think he is.
My interpretation was that the people that said he is look at him and don't know how to figure in their own head what he is, and that's the term that comes to them. But I'd say from what we know, it looks like he isn't.
The other relevant thing is that they keep fishing for links to somebody being trans, and have already pointed out 3 other things that later turned out to not really be trans related at all. So that's a good reason to think they're fishing with this one as well.
Edit: Also they keep using the term "roommate" for him, part of their argument that they're a couple. But they had separate rooms. I've always used the term suite mate for that.
DuatDweller on 16/9/2025 at 01:37
I see, well so he is in the undefined hall.
Fingernail on 16/9/2025 at 16:11
It's sort of morbidly fascinating (and very worrying) to me how much moral panic there is about trans people, who have gone from the often-mocked but quietly tolerated status during the 2000s (frequently cited in the UK at least eg. Big Brother winner Nadia back in early 2000s, becoming a household name and celebrity - the 2000s were very homo/trans-phobic in general of course), to broadly increased acceptance and visibility over the 2010s, to now being the apparent ring-leaders of an anti-free-speech, women-hating, "the actual Nazis" who as mentioned in this thread, have to be made up if they aren't really at the site of any major atrocity. The same treatment applied to other minorities would be immediately recognised as racist (eg. tarring all with the same brush if even ONE trans person commits any crime). It beggars belief.
At the same time my straight friends report that you can't avoid trans porn online, which is apparently frequently amongst the most popular genres according to the porn site algorithms. Funny that.
I was looking into which countries have gender self-ID (which caused the meltdown of the Scottish government and the downfall of Nicola Sturgeon, aided by high TERF-ess Joanne Rowling, naturally) - and the wikipedia article on the subject states: "Advocates argue that medical requirements for gender recognition are intrusive and humiliating forms of gatekeeping that can pressure transgender individuals into undergoing unwanted medical procedures."
Which is kind of ironic because one of the clips of Charlie Kirk I saw circulated included him advising a young trans person to be very cautious about doing any irreversible medical procedures. Sounds like he would agree with some of the "trans-rights activists" on this account then. Maybe just let them ID as they see fit and not have to jump through a lot of medical hoops which they may not actually want to do. Anyway, it's clear there aren't many people actually trying to find a common ground in good faith.
lowenz on 16/9/2025 at 20:38
Quote Posted by DuatDweller
It wasn't me, it was the one tranny man.
:confused:
There's no "trans", only a person in a furry custom with a female anime-version of that image. You can do that being a fascist too, just to show how you're good at irony.
I think USA right-wing people are just mad people (more mad than the average european right-wing hothead). Yes, at large. Just see how they fantasize about all of this and that's why in USA people like Kirk become saints.
More and more americans=russians. It's something about the raw number of population (and the competition).....the more they are the more they get mad.
demagogue on 16/9/2025 at 21:15
Alright, prosecutors have submitted the indictment and released a transcript between Robinson & the "Roommate", Twiggs. (They evidently don't know how to better designate the roommate.) The transcript is in both of the links I post below. If it's authentic, it points to them, TR & LT, being in a relationship, TR's basic motivation to kill CK being CK's unspecified hatred (presumably CK's anti-LGBT rhetoric is high on the list), and the memes on the shell casings were just memes. It doesn't specify in so many words, but it seems LT is what the kids would call a femboy, still self-identifying as male, taking a male pronoun, keeping a male name, etc., but expressing fem features.
The responses I'm seeing at least from the leftish side are breaking down into:
1. The transcript doesn't look like authentic texting and was fabricated to justify all kinds of crackdowns against trans & leftists. This thread is dominated by that line: (
https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1968033435706118188)
2. The transcript is probably authentic b/c the roommate is the one that called the authorities, and a fabricated text with the roommate probably can't hold water given that the roommate is the central source on which this whole thing rests. But then this is an obviously a troubled guy that can't handle his emotions, cue all the ex-mormon trauma discourse, and it sucks that he's going to end up dragging the whole country into chaos and we all have to pay for it. This is a thread dominated by this kind of line: (
https://bsky.app/profile/erininthemorning.com/post/3lyxzk4xvrk2d)
I wouldn't put it past this admin to attempt something like (1), but I have a feeling that if it could fall apart, it'll fall apart very quickly, and if that doesn't happen, then (2) is going to only become more credible over time, and I share the feeling that it sucks that we're going to have this reichstag fire moment where people on the Right already now hyped to extremism are going to have a field day with this, political violence and extremely heavy handed responses (not just soldiers but actual military crackdowns in the streets in blue cities) may well spike, and we're all going to have to pay because either conservative Mormons don't know how to raise their kids to control their emotions in healthy ways, there's no support network for people coming out of such rigid families to do that, and/or there's no support network for people that may have legit emotional dysfunction (bipolar, etc.) to do that. Alas!
Edit: 3. I'm adding a third possibility that I saw in some threads, a variation along the "fake text" line. It's that the texts were actually sent by TR to LT, but not as an honest account that would occur naturally, but as a self-fabrication by TR to shield LT from suspicion and responsibility, since he knew he'd take the fall anyway. I don't know if he'd have time to come up with that, but it's true the text reads very conveniently like an exhaustive self-incrimination, and this theory does have some sense to it.
- - - - - -
Edit: If y'all don't want to deal with text, here's a video going over it.
[video=youtube;mP1YaqiB7-c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP1YaqiB7-c[/video]
Also just want to point out that it particularly sucks for the poor roommate Twiggs. All of the Right wing venom is being centered around some trans agenda, but the one divergent identity here, Twiggs, is the person that actually did the right thing by turning TR in, handing over the text messages, cooperating, and didn't ask to be drug into this & honestly had no idea, but they're the one that's top of the list being blamed & skewered over this, even more than the actual killer. That's a sad commentary in itself.
