Eye on 4/11/2005 at 02:10
i've finally been able to play some of the fan missions (thanks, garrett loader) and definitely like what i've seen.
the only thing that still nags at me, only because i know nothing about the editor, is whether it will ever be possible to make Garrett's movement more like it was in the first two games.
some key TDS compromises (no rope arrows, smaller environments) didn't bother me because they were explained to be unavoidable. but i've never been able to get over the lurching, unstealthy player movement (the minimalist project was a help, but alas not enough). the lag in beginning to move, the unveven, lurching footsteps, the inability to lean over ledges without falling, the cruddy sidestep that replaced leaning, not returning to the original point from which you leaned, becoming visible when leaning (thus negating the whole advantage that came with being garrett), the list goes on and on.
anyway, i'm not asking anyone to do it, i'd just appreciate knowing whether it would even be possible. thanks in advance.
New Horizon on 4/11/2005 at 02:49
It's not possible yet, but that's not to say it won't be. I guess we just have to find a way to replace the animations for Garrett.
ascottk on 4/11/2005 at 03:04
We could add animations (with a modeling program w/animation to *psa export-Milkshape or actorx plugin) then replace the defaults via T3PlayerAnims.ini.
Komag on 4/11/2005 at 04:35
REALLY??? Then let's do it! If it's in any way possible to toss out the (non)lean crap and put in a real lean, that one thing alone would convert a lot of folks over to the "Shadows" side
New Horizon on 4/11/2005 at 04:48
Good lord, yes. We just have to ensure that the new animations are fluid. I would love to see Garrett with a proper lean and not the silly sidestep.
Eye on 4/11/2005 at 05:37
thank god.
i posted a similar question here awhile ago and it got "0" replies (which i had never seen happen before so i figured it was just a stupid question).
please feel free to tell me to pound sand, but if it's not too presumptous: i know there's not 100 percent agreement that everything that's different about player movement is worse (the "visible while leaning into light" has a few proponents, i've noticed, though i find it un-thiefy). nevertheless, i'd love to see an effort focused on recreating player movement as faithfully as possible the movement from the first two games, since those are the ones that brought us all here.
side question: so many of the player movement shortcomings seem to be connected to the inclusion of third person view: the lag while the body turns when movement starts; the sidestep; not returning to the original spot after a lean; falling off ledges (though has anyone else noticed how inexplicably few usable ledges there were in TDS?); hell, by the time i got the wallclimbing gloves i was fully prepared not to be able to use them to explore or find alternate routes, but you couldn't even do any good evesdropping cuz when you looked down all you saw was your damn shoulder. :mad: (alright, calm down)
anyway, i hate to come off like i'm telling people what to do, but i really love these games. TDP and TMA were the first and second games i ever played on a computer as an adult and everything else i've played since has paled in comparison (sort of a curse, actually). so, i guess what i'm saying is that putting the original, fleet-footed garrett into the T3 universe would be pretty damn cool.
ascottk on 4/11/2005 at 06:26
I'm actually playing around with T3Ed's Skeleton Browser. It's fairly easy to add a blend of different animations. I used "1frame" as the base sequence, "GAR_PS_MOV_walk_FWD1" as the first overlay & "1frame" as the rsecond overlay. Now I have a cool walk for Garrett. I compared this to "GAR_PS_MOV_walk_FWD1" and the "Garrett_Casual" hardly goes up or down at all.
So a small tutorial on the skeleton browser . . .
* Right click on any of the garrett_08* animations
* use overlay previewer use "1frame" as the base sequence (if it's not on the list, right click "Garrett_08" skeleton then add animation & choose "garrett_META")
* use "GAR_PS_MOV_walk_FWD1" as Overlay 1
[INDENT]Use the Settings: "Alpha" to 1.00 (slider all the way to right), "Start Bone" to "Garrett Pelvis", and check "Looping"
[/INDENT]
* use "1frame" as Overlay 2
[INDENT]Use the Settings: "Alpha" to 1.00, "Start Bone" to "Garrett HeadNub", and check "Looping"
[/INDENT]
* Name the motion "Garrett_Casual"
* Now click "Save"
This is untested so:
* Open T3PlayerAnims.ini (copy it first!)
* Find "[PSForward1]"
* Replace Name=GAR_PS_MOV_walk_FWD1 to Name=Garrett_Casual
* Save
(Hopefully) the next time you're in the city you won't be bobbing up & down
Crispy on 4/11/2005 at 06:27
I like "body awareness" as a concept; being able to look down at "yourself" and see your arms and feet is very cool. Unfortunately, as you say, it does create all those other issues.
I don't really mind the lurchy movement too much, myself; it's a nice change in some ways to not be a floating pair of eyeballs gliding through the scenery. On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind if it was gone either. I'm not fussy. :) The sidestep, though, is probably the thing I dislike most about T3, so if someone can manage to get rid of it, more power to them!
How far is skeletal animation, anyway? I seem to remember there were some problems with Milkshape's exporting. Has anyone managed to fix that? How feasible is this?
Eye on 4/11/2005 at 07:05
i really found the playing style i had for the first two games -- darting from shadow to shadow (with the cool, sneaky headbob); when in a bind, running down rails, jumping over tables, ledges and balconies; leaping just onto the edge of carpets, blackjack raised; coming dangerously close to guards -- just wasn't appropriate in T3. i could do it, but it just looked and felt wrong. it's as if the game is only made to be played crouched and crawling (can anyone imagine the rooftop portion of Life of the Party as drunken Garrett? succesfully using a rope arrow to pull off a narrow escape?) anyway, that may be why it bothered me so much.
oh, and another cool thing to bring back, if possible, would be run and walk being two separate buttons.
Ziemanskye on 4/11/2005 at 07:49
Quote Posted by Eye
oh, and another cool thing to bring back, if possible, would be run and walk being two separate buttons.
Now that I don't agree with.
I've personally never liked them being seperate (I like modifiers for controls - a side effect of getting into games via consoles with shoulder buttons perhaps).
New Animations in general I'm cool with the idea of though.
