SD on 2/11/2017 at 16:08
Quote Posted by scumble
I believe this is a bit of a misconception. Slavery is always kept centre, but I've picked up hints from revisionists that there was an element of Lincoln being obsessed with "saving the union". I'm hardly an expert but some alternative information has made me think there is more to it.
No, forget the alternative facts brigade, it was pretty much all about slavery.
heywood on 2/11/2017 at 19:03
Quote Posted by bassoferrol
Raph, you explain things very well and very concise and subject to the law.
Do you live in Spain by any chance?
I´d like to see the same problem in USA for example if Delaware, or California, or Florida, or Alaska... or all of them decide to leave the country named of USA unilaterally because democracy is first and I dont give a damn about breaking the law even if I was elected because of it.
Quote Posted by bassoferrol
Raph, you explain things very well and very concise and subject to the law.
Do you live in Spain by any chance?
I´d like to see the same problem in USA for example if Delaware, or California, or Florida, or Alaska... or all of them decide to leave the country named of USA unilaterally because democracy is first and I dont give a damn about breaking the law even if I was elected because of it.
Secession has been a topic of debate for the whole history of the US. The US Constitution doesn't address it, so there is no defined legal process for it. The US Supreme Court ruled during the post-civil war reconstruction period that states cannot unilaterally secede, but left open the possibility of secession via consent, or via revolution.
Secession movements come and go all the time, but aside from the Confederacy, none have been serious. So the question of how to go about doing it is open. I would hope that if a serious secession movement ever gets going, and a state demonstrates through a referendum that a majority (or perhaps supermajority) of its residents are in favor of secession, that Congress and the President would make it happen. But that's just a hope. Of course it would depend on partisan politics i.e. who is advantaged and disadvantaged by it.
There is one significant difference I see between European and American secessionist movements. If some region of an EU member state were to become an independent, but remain in the EU, the impact of independence on its citizens, neighbors, and trading partners would be small compared to a US state becoming independent. A closer analogy is probably a US state splitting into two US states.
Starker on 2/11/2017 at 19:25
Quote Posted by heywood
If some region of an EU member state were to become an independent, but remain in the EU,
This is not really an option. From the legal point of view, they would be a new state and would have to apply just like every other country in the EU. Though they might be able to join sooner than other countries, particularly if they already meet the criteria for joining and their laws are compatible with EU laws.
For example, Scotland wanted to remain in the EU if they had become independent, but they were told that it's not possible.
bassoferrol on 2/11/2017 at 22:08
Quote Posted by Starker
This is not really an option. From the legal point of view, they would be a new state and would have to apply just like every other country in the EU. Though they might be able to join sooner than other countries, particularly if they already meet the criteria for joining and their laws are compatible with EU laws.
For example, Scotland wanted to remain in the EU if they had become independent, but they were told that it's not possible.
FC Barcelona wants to remain in the Spanish football league and at the same time promote the independence from Spain and become a new state. Not only that but also the option to decide whether to remain or not in the Spanish football league they say that it´s only on their side.
Pretty funny from those sharks.
Business is business.
heywood on 2/11/2017 at 22:31
Quote Posted by Starker
This is not really an option. From the legal point of view, they would be a new state and would have to apply just like every other country in the EU. Though they might be able to join sooner than other countries, particularly if they already meet the criteria for joining and their laws are compatible with EU laws.
For example, Scotland wanted to remain in the EU if they had become independent, but they were told that it's not possible.
Of course it's an option. It's only a matter of how long it would take. As you pointed out, they would already meet all the criteria unless they specifically chose not to. A transition to independence isn't going to happen overnight anyway. A country like Scotland could be working on becoming a full EU member at the same time they are transitioning out of the UK.
Of course the EU could make it hard for Scotland if they really wanted to, but what would be the point of that? I think there was a lot of FUD being spread around before the Scottish referendum.
Starker on 2/11/2017 at 23:00
No, it's not an option. After becoming independent they would not be able to remain in the EU, though they might be able to join the EU, which is not the same thing. Scotland might have it relatively easy, Catalonia very much less so. Any EU member can block any country from joining the EU.
Also, it's not a given that a part of a country that is in EU would already meet all the criteria for joining the EU. For example, one of the requirements is being able to compete in EU markets.
Craeftig on 3/11/2017 at 01:08
It seems more like a stick to beat London with to get a 2nd ref.
