N'Al on 27/10/2017 at 15:45
Addendum:
Hey, look, I don't give two farts of piss over whether Catalonia becomes independent. I've been to Barcelona when it was part of Spain, it was awesome; I'm sure I'd enjoy it just as much if it was part of an independent Catalonia.
All I'm saying is you gotta do it properly. Puigdemont's way as well as Rajoy's response are complete bullshit.
heywood on 27/10/2017 at 16:04
How do you do it "properly" if it's categorically opposed by the ruling government? If it's up to the ruling government to say whether a declaration of independence is legal or not, that's not really self-determination.
Scotland's referendum was supported by the UK government. In that case, Cameron was making a strategic gamble that the vote would go against independence and weaken the Scottish independence movement. But if public opinion was strongly on the side of Scottish independence, I doubt that he ever would have supported holding the referendum.
Over the history of the world, state borders have been fluid, changing with every war. Many of today's current borders were drawn up somewhat arbitrarily in the middle 20th century, and don't represent the nationality of the people very well. Iraq is a great example. Why do we hold these sacrosanct in cases where they no longer represent the will of the people?
N'Al on 27/10/2017 at 16:08
Quote Posted by heywood
How do you do it "properly" if it's categorically opposed by the ruling government? If it's up to the ruling government to say whether a declaration of independence is legal or not, that's not really self-determination.
I already answered that. Scotland managed to do it, the Czechs and the Slovaks managed to do it, I'm sure there's other examples as well.
Kolya on 27/10/2017 at 16:19
This is probably naive, but what big difference does it make if they want to be part of the EU afterwards anyway? The EU is all about creating common laws from common values, common money, possibly even a common army at some point. A secession movement just seems backwards to me. Of course the case with Scotland is different in that regard. Now at least.
rachel on 27/10/2017 at 19:07
Puigdemont is a spineless little bitch who couldn't even face his responsibilities, leaving it to his Parliament to pull the trigger. He and his cronies should rot in jail for all the misrepresentation and lies they have made to further their agenda.
The vast majority of independentists are living like independence is a fait accompli and severely underestimate the lengths a sovereign state can go to for self-preservation. Rajoy is gonna go hard now with all the legitimacy he needs, and that's all he wanted.
Conveniently, the corruption at the root of both side's behaviour is put aside and forgotten while the shitstorm looms.
This is not going to end well.
st.patrick on 27/10/2017 at 19:35
Quote Posted by N'Al
I already answered that. Scotland managed to do it, the Czechs and the Slovaks managed to do it, I'm sure there's other examples as well.
Czechs and Slovaks however didn't hold a referendum as to the future of Czechoslovakia; the then Czech and Slovak political leaders did not wish to call for a referendum, as they (correctly) guessed there would be a landslide vote against splitting the country. Moreover the position of CZ and SK was that of two sovereign entities of equal standing (a federation), which is not the case of Spain and Catalonia. Sadly, the situation is much closer to that of pre-1990s Yugoslavia, and I do hope that the Catalans will be able to keep their cool when faced with the central government rescinding their regional rights and governance.
voodoo47 on 27/10/2017 at 19:52
we didn't "manage to do it". the politicians top ex-commie murderers and thieves who turned coats after '89 from both nations decided that it will be easier to rape and pillage with the country split in two, and everyone was like what the actual fck? but they did, and raped and pillaged both countries for many, many years. they still enjoy all the spoils to this day, fat and retired, surrounded by grandchildren, with zero chance of jail (or firing squad).
bassoferrol on 27/10/2017 at 20:37
Puigdemont represents Spain in Catalonia. He is under the law just like you and me. He is no more than you and me and he knows it.
Response within the Constitution is what has to be done and Puigdemont wants the Constitution out of Catalonia.
But at the same time he has a post in the Parliament and earning a big sum of money that comes from all Spain.
I can´t vote in Catalonia but a person from Senegal who has been living there for say two yeras can. You don´t have to demonstrate your nationality to vote in Catalonia for independency. That´s not serious.
If you see a star in a Catalonian flag you should know that it has to do with marxist ideas. It was designed in 1968 and is not the Catalonian official flag.
jkcerda on 27/10/2017 at 20:54
doubt they will get anywhere.
icemann on 28/10/2017 at 09:34
The only time it irks me about independence voting is when it's by a nationality that immigrated to a region over a period of time, then once the percentage of them vs the original populace is high enough they declare Independence. That is bullshit to me.
This happened in Serbia a few years back.
