KGoodsell on 4/4/2002 at 20:17

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This has been discussed at least a little bit before (I only found one thread on it here, but I found a few similar discussions on various other forums). Anyone who tries to play non-lethal during the first few levels has probably run into this apparent bug. In castle Clinton, even if you don't kill anyone Anna says something like "you are not afraid to kill. That's the last thing I would expect from the brother of Paul" and you get branded as a killer take-no-prisoners type.

I've read a few possible explanations for this, but can discount most of them:

You are blamed for kills made by Anna or the two UNATCO troops.

I approached this part by first closing the doors to the castle, preventing Anna and the UNATCO troops from ever spotting the NSF inside. They never fired a shot, so clearly this was not the cause in my case.

Entering through the front door causes it.

Apparently not, since I left the front door closed and entered through the window blocked by crates behind the building. I was *close* to the front doors when I closed them, but I was able to generate both responses ("not afraid to kill" or "too gentle") depending on what I did after.

I'm sure there are other explanations that I've read, but I can't think of them right now.

My best guess at the moment is that the knockouts are mistakenly counted as kills, or "partial kills", like maybe 2 KOs = 1 kill according to the game's logic. I base this on the following:

I KOed the 5 NSF immediately inside the building, snuck to the Ambrosia, and snuck back out. Got the "Too gentle" response. Then I loaded a previous save, KOed 1 more NSF (the one at the bottom of the stairs that carries the safe key) and got the "not afraid to kill" response. At this point, I thought that maybe I was allowed 5 kills, but not 6. Repeated again, but used kills instead of KOs. Got the "not afraid to kill" response after taking out only the first 5.

So, has anyone actually solved this puzzle?

-Kevin

Grundbegriff on 5/4/2002 at 00:13

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Here's a nice aerial shot of the real Castle Clinton that Rug Burn Junky took from his office window near Battery Park:

<img src="http://earlymodern.com/games/images/castleclinton.jpg">

armcommander on 5/4/2002 at 14:36

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Besides the dark and gritty Deus Ex textures the Deus Ex team did a great job of making Castle Clinton look like the real Castle Clinton,

Grundbegriff on 6/4/2002 at 08:36

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It's the battery that Battery Park is named after:

<font color=red>Castle Clinton</font>
(http://www.gorp.com/gorp/resource/US_nm/ny_castl.htm) http://www.gorp.com/gorp/resource/US_nm/ny_castl.htm

<font color=red>Castle Clinton</font>
(http://www.preserve.org/wtc/castle_clinton.htm) http://www.preserve.org/wtc/castle_clinton.htm

How it used to look, #1:
(http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castlegardenB.JPG) http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castlegardenB.JPG

How it used to look, #2:
(http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castle_detail_1.JPG) http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castle_detail_1.JPG

How it used to look, #3 (!!!):
(http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castle_detail_2.JPG) http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castle_detail_2.JPG

How it used to look, #4: before the partial demolition:
<img src="http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc/battery/image/castle_detail_3.JPG">

gbayles on 30/4/2002 at 16:45

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"... go in to castle clinton the back way, tranq everyone (You can probably kill them and you'll still get the non-lethal way but tranq em anyway) ..."

Nah, bypass them all except the one closest to where you find the Ambrosia. He's the only one you need to knock out - and the prods best for that. Go up to the kiosk and talk to the kid but don't be seen. Exit the way you came in. Don't ever go near the regular entrance - there's a trigger located near there that causes the NSF to come out and attack.

"... The next part of the mission IS REALLY HARD to get Non-lethal (Battery Park). I think I've only done it once. Basically NO ONE CAN DIE! Not even in the subway. ..."

Actually, the NSF in the squatters camp near the station can be killed. This part is almost trivially easy once you know the trick:

[spoiler] Go though the vent system to ground level and around to the far corner. Give the NSF a little distraction - crossbow bolt to the far wall - and then talk to the hostages. Collect 300 xp and exit via the subway. [/spoiler]