SubJeff on 9/7/2020 at 21:54
Quote Posted by Thirith
It sounds nice, but it's a motivational poster. It's a movie of the week. It is *not* a law. At best, it's a legal principle that isn't adhered to with any consistency for a number of reasons.
1) If you're accused of a violent crime, you may be put into prison anyway,
Sure, but you aren't treated as a criminal, but as a potential one and being in police custody is a risk-benefit decision.
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2) There are situations where it makes sense to treat someone accused of a crime as not innocent, but very often whether you are or not is entirely down to things such as how rich or poor you are, whether you're white or black, whether you're any other kind of minority, whether you have a police record or not (which you may have without ever having committed a crime). If you're poor, you may not be able to afford the legal process that, if it were fair, would decide that you're innocent, so you may go for a plea deal, and hey presto, you're a criminal, although you didn't do anything. Whereas, if you're privileged, your chances of getting off scot-free are much, much higher.
I don't buy this so much.
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3) So, innocent until proven guilty. Let's look at a concrete example. O.J. Simpson was pronounced 'not guilty'. Was he therefore innocent?
Of the criminal charge, yes.
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Let's say that a close friend of mine says they were sexually abused by that person. Do I still treat them as innocent?
That's up to you. You run the risk of falsely treating them as guilty. And your friend isn't the law.
SubJeff on 9/7/2020 at 21:56
Quote Posted by june gloom
jesus christ, SD, way to show your true colors
Are you sure you haven't become a nun, because you've got no sense of humour.
rachel on 9/7/2020 at 22:02
Quote Posted by SD
I don't view non-binary people as a threat to binary identities. I view people with penises as a threat to people without. People need to stop making this about transgenderism when it's about possession of a rape tool.
For your information and for the sake of respectful discussion, the term "transgenderism" is frowned upon (being transgender is neither an opinion nor a disease). When discussing these issues, the expressions gender identity or gender dysphoria are preferred.
That said, your generalization of all penises as "rape tools" is frankly disturbing, so I'm struggling to determine if you were using that term out of malice or ignorance.
Kolya on 9/7/2020 at 22:03
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Are you sure you haven't become a nun, because you've got no sense of humour.
Well he said he's got a partner that's way cooler than you. So there's that.
Also many nuns have lots humour, because they have to.
SubJeff on 9/7/2020 at 22:09
Quote Posted by Thirith
In the best of all possible world, I'd be happy to consider this. In a world where criminal record is in no small way dependent on race, wealth and other factors, much less so.
Whilst it's possible that some these factors may play a role I doubt they'd play a large enough role as to label someone Violent and in need of Special Measures when being arrested. You'd have to really deserve that.
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And what about the behavioral history of the guys in blue? When they can shoot fleeing people in the back, or shoot people while they're asleep at home, and nothing much happens (until after a lot of protesting, and often not even then), shouldn't this be part of the equation?
Yes, but a different part.
Quote Posted by raph
The problem is not restrooms, it's men, and patriarchy in culture.
Funny you say this, because a fair few people think that forcing women to accept transwomen into female safe spaces is a further extension of the patriarchy.
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You did mention it to illustrate a point though.
I different point, which had nothing to do with the underpinning of my opinion and is therefore totally and completely irrelevant.
This is an example of the Knights Move thinking I mentioned earlier.
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Unisex facilities could also serve this purpose and arguably would be easier to implement as well as more inclusive... but then I suppose the safe space aspect would be lost and that's a key to the whole argument, isn't it..?
Not if unisex facilities were a third space.
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I don't pretend I have a solution, mind. It's a hairy topic.
I don't know if you meant this as a joke, but I laughed. As good as SD's forum tags and I'm surprised june gloom isn't in a rage over it.
SubJeff on 9/7/2020 at 22:11
Quote Posted by Kolya
Well he said he's got a partner that's way cooler than you. So there's that.
Also many nuns have lots humour, because they have to.
[video=youtube;wSt0eu7sDiY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSt0eu7sDiY[/video]
Kolya on 9/7/2020 at 22:39
Why has there never been a remake of Highlander?! It's a good story, but the execution has aged quite badly.
SD on 9/7/2020 at 22:48
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Are you sure you haven't become a nun, because you've got no sense of humour.
Came for the debate, stayed for the tags.
My favourite part was when gloom was telling me I was self-identifying wrong.
Quote Posted by raph
That said, your generalization of all penises as "rape tools" is frankly disturbing, so I'm struggling to determine if you were using that term out of malice or ignorance.
I don't think so. You could describe a knife as a stabbing implement, it doesn't mean all or even most knives will be used for stabbing people.
june gloom on 10/7/2020 at 00:45
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Are you sure you haven't become a nun, because you've got no sense of humour.
i grew up catholic, some nuns are hilarious
y'all just ain't funny
Nicker on 10/7/2020 at 03:31
I offer this as a draft description of "Cancel Culture, for the purpose of this thread.
Cancel Culture is a contemporary term (circa 2020) describing the ancient, instinctual social practice known as shaming, applied in the ecosystem of instantaneous, global mass information sharing. It is primarily emotional in tone, reactive in nature and binary in structure. Judgement and punishment are often simultaneous and usually measured in minutes.
