SD on 9/7/2020 at 20:06
Quote Posted by june gloom
horseshit. you don't get to skate by via inventing a whole new category of gender so you can deny trans women their identity just because you're obsessed with penis
tell us what you
really think, in as few words as possible (so as to prevent burying it in your usual bloviating) because this whole exercise has been you making bad arguments then when people respond to what you say you yell at them for getting it wrong
so stop pretending "trans" is a gender unto itself and answer the question, coward
Who is inventing anything? Third genders have been a thing in human societies around the world for thousands of years.
I accept that transwomen aren't merely men, which is surely the important thing from their point of view.
I cannot for the life of me understand why you think this isn't what I really think. I've been posting on this forum for the best part of 20 years, and I'm not about to start telling lies now.
By the way, the bad arguments and yelling hasn't been from me.
SD on 9/7/2020 at 20:10
Quote Posted by Starker
Okay, so she's not a darling for some portion of her fans anymore (while many others have rallied to her defence, it seems). And? Has she been fired from anything? Does she suddenly not have a career anymore? Is her life completely destroyed? Has she been disowned by her family and friends?
More importantly, how is this any different from the myriad of other celebrity scandals where fans are displeased with something their idol says or does?
No, she hasn't been fired from anything - yet. But you can bet that what she does will be heavily scrutinised from here on in.
Quote Posted by june gloom
anyway, about SD's claims to being genderfluid: i say horseshit to that too.
genderfluid and gender non-conforming are two different things, SD, and if you consider yourself to be a straight man as you've said earlier then you by definition cannot be genderfluid. my partner is genderfluid (and a far better person than you, but that's neither here nor there) and would absolutely take exception to your self-labeling, not even because of the transphobic doggerel you've been spewing but because
by your own admission you're something mutually exclusive with genderfluid
there's nothing
wrong with being gender-nonconforming (and in fact i encourage it) but don't say you're something you're not then use that identity you're appropriating as cover for your own transphobia
how can you even hope to have any claim of understanding trans issues when you don't even understand the words
I believe the boundary between genderfluid and gender non-conforming is... fluid.
And remember, what a person believes about themself must now be accepted, without question. That's the new orthodoxy.
june gloom on 9/7/2020 at 20:11
Quote Posted by SD
Who is inventing anything? Third genders have been a thing in human societies around the world for thousands of years.
this is a feint and you know it, this is why i call you dishonest, this isn't about "third genders," this is about the identity of trans women
do you or do you not deny that trans women are in fact women, period, no qualifiers? this is such an incredibly simple question and it's amazing that you can't seem to answer it
june gloom on 9/7/2020 at 20:15
Quote Posted by SD
I believe the boundary between genderfluid and gender non-conforming is... fluid.
And remember, what a person believes about themself must now be accepted, without question. That's the new orthodoxy.
jesus christ. "i'm not the one making bad arguments!" and then this, one right after the other. just beautiful
again: GNC and genderfluid
are not the same thing, and even assuming that you
are genderfluid, that just makes you a raging hypocrite
SD on 9/7/2020 at 20:20
Quote Posted by june gloom
this is a feint and you know it, this is why i call you dishonest, this isn't about "third genders," this is about the identity of trans women
do you or do you not deny that trans women are in fact women, period, no qualifiers? this is such an incredibly simple question and it's amazing that you can't seem to answer it
I cannot in all honesty state that transwomen are 100% women. Neither do I believe them to be men.
I accept that transwomen believe themselves to be women, and I am happy to indulge this belief until it impacts negatively upon natural-born women.
I don't know why my rejection of the binary is a difficult concept to grasp.
Renzatic on 9/7/2020 at 20:23
Quote Posted by SubJeff
Perhaps we're getting mixed up with the terms woman and female here?
Transwomen, unlike ciswomen, have a Y chromosome, so however we finally refer to them they are still transwomen.
Even chromosomal arrangement isn't a perfect indicator. There are a number of various syndromes that cause people to develop opposite of their genetic makeup.
june gloom on 9/7/2020 at 20:39
Quote Posted by SD
I cannot in all honesty state that transwomen are 100% women. Neither do I believe them to be men.
I accept that transwomen believe themselves to be women, and I am happy to indulge this belief until it impacts negatively upon natural-born women.
I don't know why my rejection of the binary is a difficult concept to grasp.
your "rEjEcTiOn oF tHe BiNaRy" is horsecrap. a trans woman who identifies as a woman
is a woman, full stop. stop using non-binary concepts to invalidate them.
i mean, jesus, you're doing
exactly what the contrapoints lady was whining about, because in her insecurity she viewed non-binary people as a threat to her very binary identity
it's a delicious irony that the real threat is coming from a transphobe and not actual non-binary people
lowenz on 9/7/2020 at 20:48
Quote Posted by june gloom
because in her insecurity she viewed non-binary people as a threat to her very binary identity
Problem is :why someone thinks this insecurity (taking for granted it's insecurity, it's much more complex, surely insecurity plays a role but not in a female brain about cis/trans, I assure you) must
not be legit and so defended?
Enormous limits of the "right-based" civilisation.....someone's right is always a threat for the mind of someone else. Of course it's not a material threat, but rights do not apply only to the material world and "factual events".
Kolya on 9/7/2020 at 21:05
If trans women were women without any difference, there wouldn't be a debate. The whole thing hinges on you defining "woman" as a purely social construct and trying to push that agenda past any biological differences, which have been the base of social gender constructs from the start. We can try to get past that to some degree at least and I see good reasons to do so, but yelling at people to admit that they still see a difference isn't helping.
june gloom on 9/7/2020 at 21:06
Quote Posted by lowenz
Problem is :why someone thinks this insecurity (taking for granted it's insecurity, it's much more complex, surely insecurity plays a role but not in a female brain about cis/trans, I assure you) must
not be legit and so defended?
Enormous limits of the "right-based" civilisation.....someone's right is always a threat for the mind of someone else. Of course it's not a material threat, but rights do not apply only to the material world and "factual events".
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