Kolya on 9/7/2020 at 08:14
tl;dr: Cancel culture is taking the same oppressive tools previously used by the political right, now used by the left. And they cannot see the problem with that.
Thirith on 9/7/2020 at 08:18
If you're going to keep talking about cancel culture, Kolya, could you please address the points made earlier by Nicker and Starker concerning what is actually meant, so that everyone's actually talking about the same thing? Because by and large the best we've got so far is icemann's list of supposed examples of cancel culture that are up for debate, to say the very least. (And a concrete question on my part: would you consider what's been happening with respect to J.K. Rowling to be an example of cancel culture?)
rachel on 9/7/2020 at 10:20
I wouldn't say she is being canceled. She's being called out for posting and relaying transphobic views. That's not the same thing. She's still there.
Canceling is what happened with GoT. It was acclaimed as the greatest thing on TV, then season 8 happened and everyone went mad. One year on, it's completely disappeared from the collective consciousness. It's actually incredible how swift it went. Now THAT's canceling. Of course, it's an example outside the political spectrum, so I don't know how well it will fare here.
lowenz on 9/7/2020 at 10:23
Quote Posted by Kolya
tl;dr: Cancel culture is taking the same oppressive tools previously used by the political right, now used by the left. And they cannot see the problem with that.
It's called "real politik".
You want the law to "defend" you? You get the state who's eager to cancel everything (to gain even more consensus) to "defend your rights" against "the enemies of the state".
It's how the real state (and the "rights-based" civilisation) works: suppression&oppression to gain consensus (left or right, there's no difference about gaining consensus) with a good old force exhibition blessed by the "people".
Sulphur on 9/7/2020 at 10:55
Quote Posted by raph
Canceling is what happened with GoT. It was acclaimed as the greatest thing on TV, then season 8 happened and everyone went mad. One year on, it's
completely disappeared from the collective consciousness. It's actually incredible how swift it went. Now THAT's canceling. Of course, it's an example outside the political spectrum, so I don't know how well it will fare here.
That's really more of a collective dismissal because of a precipitous quality drop though, right? I don't think it's been erased from the public conscious more than a) it's concluded and with that comes a related drop in discussions, and b) being a massive disappointment isn't as long tail conversation-worthy as something that didn't drop the ball.
Briareos H on 9/7/2020 at 10:55
In my view "cancel culture" is the manufacturing of outrage with the sole goal of getting someone deplatformed/fired for the perceived slight from a bad take or a misguided opinion rather than trying to understand or educate them. I'd say it's pretty real but it certainly doesn't look like it happened to J.K. Rowling (she still has a huge platform, and plenty of people have tried to educate her in a nonagressive way). I don't think that's something new either: the press (especially gossip/tabloid mags) have been doing this for centuries, the only difference is that now it's happening on Twitter.
lowenz on 9/7/2020 at 11:15
Quote Posted by Briareos H
In my view "cancel culture" is the manufacturing of outrage with the sole goal of getting someone deplatformed/fired for the perceived slight from a bad take or a misguided opinion rather than trying to understand or educate them. I'd say it's pretty real but it certainly doesn't look like it happened to J.K. Rowling (she still has a huge platform, and plenty of people have tried to educate her in a nonagressive way). I don't think that's something new either: the press (especially gossip/tabloid mags) have been doing this for centuries, the only difference is that now it's happening on Twitter.
Way before the press
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae)
The classic (popperian) problem is: "Destroy the cancel culture is right? Or simply useless 'cause it will come back as a possibile "domination strategy" as it has always been about? :p
Jason Moyer on 9/7/2020 at 12:10
Quote Posted by Kolya
tl;dr: Cancel culture is taking the same oppressive tools previously used by the political right, now used by the left. And they cannot see the problem with that.
Saying you don't like someone on Twitter isn't the same as people in positions of wealth and power suppressing (usually with state-sanctioned violence or threats of violence) artistic expression, civil rights, immigrant/human rights, religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom, etc. You're literally comparing someone on Twitter saying "I won't support you because I think you're a bad person" to the fucking Kent State massacre, to the way Native Americans are currently being violently re-educated for wanting public discourse on a pipeline being built through their land, to a "justice" system that is murdering African Americans and legislating god damn restroom usage, to the media monopolies pushing nationalist propaganda, to the government holding hearings in order to censor "dangerous" art, to the current ruling party in this country asking people to die so that 1% of the country can keep buying yachts. Yes, the disenfranchised asking if they could be treated a little better is literally exactly the same as the rich and powerful oppressing dissent through propaganda and violence. I don't know how I didn't see the truth before.
Kolya on 9/7/2020 at 12:23
I am not comparing it, the quote you posted did that.
Nor do I have to define what cancel culture is, because I commented on that quote, and specifically on its definition of cancel culture.
If you don't agree with that definition, find a better quote next time.
lowenz on 9/7/2020 at 12:30
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Saying you don't like someone on Twitter isn't the same as people in positions of wealth and power suppressing (usually with state-sanctioned violence or threats of violence) artistic expression, civil rights, immigrant/human rights, religious freedom, political freedom, sexual freedom, etc. You're literally comparing someone on Twitter saying "I won't support you because I think you're a bad person" to the fucking Kent State massacre, to the way Native Americans are currently being violently re-educated for wanting public discourse on a pipeline being built through their land, to a "justice" system that is murdering African Americans and legislating god damn restroom usage, to the media monopolies pushing nationalist propaganda, to the government holding hearings in order to censor "dangerous" art, to the current ruling party in this country asking people to die so that 1% of the country can keep buying yachts. Yes, the disenfranchised asking if they could be treated a little better is literally exactly the same as the rich and powerful oppressing dissent through propaganda and violence. I don't know how I didn't see the truth before.
The problem is: this is what the "people" wants (what the "people" is
instructed to want - @family and @society level - but nonetheless they desire cancellation to achieve a fake reassuring calm to dedicate theyself to their - american? - "dreams")
And yes, today this problem affects the "left" (I don't see any "left" in our present world, left is about state overcoming, not a grotesque "progressive values driven" state) wing too.
