Renzatic on 6/7/2020 at 22:54
Blame me for it then. It was a shit thread where people were wearing their hearts on their sleeves, and it was probably going nowhere good. I made a judgement call, and now here we are.
Azaran on 6/7/2020 at 23:41
I remember just a few years ago, the "woke" crowd protesting by the thousands in the streets over some nasty comments that some infamous figure made. That's cool.
The tragic cause of the present protests aside, where were these enlightened crusaders when (
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/isis-orlando-shooting-gays-execution-torture-ramadan/) gays were being thrown off buildings and women sold into slavery by a far right religious group?
Where were they when countless women were being (
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35943732) murdered for anything and nothing?
If they're so 'woke' and enlightened, and oh so wise, where was their outrage for these very real atrocities?
If comments are more offensive to you than real evil, you need to reevaluate your priorities.
Aja on 6/7/2020 at 23:42
Quote Posted by SubJeff
There is no insult here. Can you quote where I insulted anyone?
Yes:
Quote Posted by SubJeff
...you can't even have a discussion without the uberwoke getting so butthurt they need the thread shut down
There's legitimate discussion to be had on this subject, but it's not going to happen if you open the topic hurling insults.
Kolya on 7/7/2020 at 00:11
I never heard about Nimesh Patel, but I just read (
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/07/opinion/columbia-nimesh-patel-comedian-kicked-offstage.html) an article by him about this where he recounts the experience and concludes that we shouldn't be jumping to a predetermined conclusion based on the action of a small group.
I'd like to add that there are small vocal groups on both sides of this argument. And they rile up people on a global scale. We recently had a mass brawl with the police here in Stuttgart and by all accounts the people involved basically thought they were fighting against the same racist police force who killed George Floyd. In Stuttgart, Germany.
My advice is to look at the reality outside your own window instead of the internet and consider with a level headed mind what's more likely to happen out there tonight. Will an innocent man get temporarily incarcerated. Maybe. Will several women get raped? Definitely. Are black people treated as second class citizen ... in Ireland? Are women congregating outside to deny my freedom, or am I still pretty well off, possibly partly because I'm born a white male? Which is nobody's fault. Not even the Romans.
SD on 7/7/2020 at 00:41
I'm glad this topic has been revisited, because hopefully someone can explain to me what was wrong with anything JK Rowling has said.
I have nothing but sympathy and compassion for transgender people, but I agree with her that someone with a dick shouldn't just be able to declare themself a woman and instantly gain access to woman-only spaces. And even if I didn't agree with her, then I'd still think it was a perfectly valid and reasonable opinion, and not remotely bigoted.
When did the bar for bigotry become so low? It seems that if you don't agree with everything special interest groups believe (much of it without a shred of evidence, it must be noted) you're condemned as intolerant and hateful.
At the moment in the UK we have an issue with puberty blockers being given to minors who may be trans. If you're opposed to this practice then congratulations, trans rights activists believe you're a fascist. It's preposterous.
Here's an analogy. You will have to go a very long way to find anyone who likes ladies with large chests as much as me. I love feminine women, to the point of exaggerated femininity, and breasts that most men would probably consider cartoonishly proportioned. If it was up to me, you'd be able to get boob jobs on the NHS. But I still don't think minors should be allowed to undergo implant surgery - not because I hate boobs, but BECAUSE THEY ARE MINORS. And I think life changing decisions like that should only be made by mentally competent adults.
Similarly, I don't hate trans people - why on earth would I, or anyone else? - but I don't think fricking children should be permitted to undergo any kind of transition process, surgical, chemical or otherwise. I think I have an innate understanding of this issue more than most; while I am absolutely a heterosexual man, if pressed I would definitely admit to a degree of genderfluidity. But I should not be allowed into a women's refuge, not even if I was wearing heels and a dress. And I certainly shouldn't be allowed to sue female beauticians if they (
https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/25/trans-woman-tried-to-sue-beauticians-for-refusing-to-wax-her-testicles-10982552/) refused to wax my lady scrotum.
Back to JK. The sheer deluge of hatred that she has received, whether it be death threats, rape threats (if I had a dollar for every transperson who has suggested JK suck their lady-dick, I'd have enough to purchase a whole new wardrobe - male and female), hardcore pornography (much of it posted into her Twitter contests for children - stay classy, guys!) and so on, is quite astonishing. And in fact, it's entirely indistinguishable from the hatred that women receive every day from the most toxically masculine of men, which tells its own story.
We've reached a situation where lesbians and hetero men are called transphobic because they don't want to date a woman with a cock. How has it got this far? That's the question people like Joanne Rowling have been brave enough to ask. And I think future generations will judge this generation harshly for the way it allowed biological women to be treated.
june gloom on 7/7/2020 at 01:58
"i have nothing but sympathy and compassion for transgender people" "IF U HAV DIK U NOT WOMAN" bro like why you so obsessed with peoples' genitals bro do you hear yourself bro you prefaced your entire post with a bald-faced lie bro why would you lie like that bro
anyway back to subjeff's little tantrum, this is kind of my issue with TTLG, on literally any decent forum that isn't this one, seeing a thread being closed down and starting a brand new one because you absolutely must give the world your hottest of takes would earn you at least a suspension, but because this is TTLG he gets what he wants: a continued debate so he can come out looking like the victor when people inevitably give up trying to talk sense to him
that's what matters to him, that's all that matters to him
Jason Moyer on 7/7/2020 at 02:07
Man, I have to admit, I didn't realize a discussion on the internet could change so many people's minds. I'm impressed.
Aja on 7/7/2020 at 02:10
Quote Posted by SD
I'm glad this topic has been revisited, because hopefully someone can explain to me what was wrong with anything JK Rowling has said.
I'm not the best person to explain this because the issue is complex and I'm still learning about it, but I'll give it a shot. There are a couple problems with the argument that trans women shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces.
First, to assume that what she's saying is true means you also have to assume, at a high level, that the distinction between men and women is something that can be objectively quantified. Yes, there's genitalia and chromosomes, but they don't explain the depression and dysphoria some people feel when their assigned gender doesn't match what they know they actually are and the relief and the sense of wholeness that comes from adopting their true gender. To reduce the argument to, “Declaring you're a women to gain access to female-only spaces is unacceptable” is to say that I, a person who has no idea what your lived experience is actually like, knows better than you about yourself. It invalidates what is clearly a very real and traumatic experience and ignores the actual reason people transition.
Second, statistically trans people are overwhelmingly more likely to be abused than abusers. So if your argument is the safety of women's-only spaces, you're going to have to start banning lesbians or even straight women who are strong enough to overpower their peers. What's the excuse if they're just as much of a danger? Besides, a deranged person can already go into whatever bathroom or shelter they want to commit assault, so we wouldn't really be solving that problem, even if did exist. It's like the people insisting that gay men shouldn't adopt because they're more likely to be pedophiles.
In the end, what it boils down to is plain and simple bigotry masquerading as an appeal to logic. Go on any TERF or so-called gender critical forum and what you'll see is mainly just people being grossed out by trans people and coming up with reasons to justify their discomfort, and that is exactly what JK Rowling did.
Starker on 7/7/2020 at 03:32
Okay, go on then. Prove that there is a rise of false claims as you say there is. Show your data so that everyone can evaluate whether what you're claiming is in fact true and that there is a significant problem worth discussing, instead of a vanishingly rare and drummed up occurrence in the face of a much bigger problem of violence against women.