SubJeff on 8/7/2020 at 12:48

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Oh, no one supported it?

Did it happen by magic then, or is it all a dream?

Seems like someone did support it, doesn't it? Yes. And someone with authority enough to discount any fears about this. A panel perhaps? A panel of Uberwoke people such as yourself?

That's what it looks like to me, but please enlighten us with further information or theories you have in this.

Maybe someone, ha ha ha, was just playing a little joke?

NOBODY supported this thing that really happened and which required support?

You can't make this up. Just can't.

rachel on 8/7/2020 at 13:00

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Aziz's "Right Now" (https://www.netflix.com/es-en/title/81098589) is on Netflix. Yeah, I didn't get hooked by Master of None tbh. But the special is different. There are actually bits without jokes at times where he gets pretty introspective. I thought it was pretty good, but obviously YMMV.

Louis CK's is an exclusive (https://louisck.com/products/sincerely-louis-ck) on his website.

edit


Yeah, it hasn't changed much. I still think it's a blatant double standard, and your justification for it is pretty shoddy.

First, it still focuses on genitals, which is an issue in itself, as if GRS was the culmination of transition. This isn't necessarily the case.

Second, it doesn't hold. On one hand, you can bet a pre-op trans man probably won't be flashing his vulva, just like a pre-op trans woman wouldn't be flashing her penis, among other things precisely because just getting there, for a transgender individual, is an enormous step that probably took months of confidence building to get to. They're not going to jeopardize that. I wouldn't, in any case.

On the other hand... Why do you assume that men wouldn't get uncomfortable, or worse, predatory, IF they saw something? You are actually basing your argument of banning trans women from women facilities on the premise that men can be a threat to women, so why would seeing a trans man's female genitals suddenly be OK for men? And these men are in a safe space that they control, adding to the potential threat to tg individuals.

Leaving restrooms for a sec, this not an hypothetical, being targeted by men because he was trans is exactly what happened to (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena) Brandon Teena.

I'm sorry, but it doesn't compute.

Now, leaving what you said specifically, allow me to generalize further. Another thing that makes me extremely uncomfortable in this argument is that it also seems to grossly assume, for the purpose of generating extra discomfort, that trans women are just men in drag. While passing can be a challenge, especially when beginning transition, transitioning older, or both (and it causes its share of issues), I can assure you that you probably crossed path with trans women (and men) many times, and were none the wiser. Imagine if someone was lucky to transition early and develop into a full-blown woman... then just because she has a penis you'd force her to share facilities with men? She does not belong there, no more than the man I posted before belongs in the women's.

The entire premise is specious.

heywood on 8/7/2020 at 13:54

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You've made it clear that your objection is baser than protecting women from sexual predators. You fear that some poor woman might glimpse a dick if she glances the wrong way at the wrong time. That is not a valid reason to restrict the rights of trans people to live normally. If anyone feels uncomfortable around someone because of their physical appearance, whether it's because they're obese, black, trans, covered with tats and piercings, or whatever else - that's their hangup to get over. If a cis woman feels uncomfortable using a changing room or toilet because a trans woman is in there, she can simply wait. Or better yet, just follow normal changing room etiquette and don't go staring at other people's naked bodies.

SubJeff on 8/7/2020 at 15:01

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Why do male and female changing rooms even exist? Huuur.

What ultra-liberal extremist poppycock is this?



You think this is the same as seeing someone's genitals? Wow.



Ah, so it's cis-women who have to wait outside the women's changing room if they feel uncomfortable being in the same room as a naked cocks whilst they get undressed. I see. Is this the same for women with underage children? They should wait outside until the cocks are all gone then?

SD was saying that he thinks women's safe spaces are under attack because of this entire issue.

Thank you for showing us that it really is true.

You've jumped the shark. Hard.

Sulphur, Starker, Thirith, Aja - you all support this idea?

SubJeff on 8/7/2020 at 15:14

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It has to focus on genitals. That's what the issue is about. How you gonna discuss the tomato crops without mentioning tomatoes. Or crops?

I know GRS isn't the culmination. I've said as much earlier in the thread.


Sure, he might use a cubicle. No problem.


But if they did, it would upset people more than the other way around, wouldn't it?

Ask your wife or girlfriend or some female friends. Try it.



I don't.

Can I kindly ask that you don't strawman me like this?

This is a legit concern of course. I think it far more likely that a trans man is assaulted in a changing room by a cis man, than a trans woman by a cis woman. Far far more likely.



Nope. Not at all.


I'm sure. I knew a trans woman way back in the early 90s. She was a friend of a friend. I didn't know for at least 2 years.



What do you mean by "full blown"?

Also, I never said that such a person should have to share facilities with men. Just that I understand the concerns surrounding them using female facilities.

And let's be clear - I don't think unisex toilets are really a big deal. They usually have cubicles so you can have privacy and even if they have urinals most people aren't going to feel exposed. If they do they can use the cubicles. I'm talking changing rooms and other places where people are likely to spend more time in a vulnerable state.