ercles on 22/9/2006 at 02:38
Well do you think it is okay to torture people who commit other crimes such as rape, murder, or a combination of both. It becomes very dangerous to start saying it's okay to torture someone for commiting x, y, and z, but nothing else, because it leaves the door open for exploitation of these rules. Also, if the American government had half a brain it would have checked intelligence given to it before shipping someone off to the torture chambers.
jprobs on 22/9/2006 at 10:57
Pyrian- First off, Our founding fathers fought for the rights of Americans, the man in the story is canadian. He does not have the same rights as a citizen of this country. And no, I am not advocating plucking anyone at will off the street and taking them off to be toutured and shot, however you would like to twist what I said. Murder is against the law too, but in wartime we murder.
And BTW, I will not leave this country regardless of what I think. (you also added words to my quote)
StD- Secretive government agencies have been deciding innocence and guilt sice before we were born and will continue to be doing it long after we are dead. It's how the real world works. I would like to live in utopia with you, but there is a real world out here, and it isn't utopia.
Ercles- Your pulling a Std, and adding words to what I say. No, you cant torture a 5 year old for stealing a piece of bubble gum. No you cant torture a bum for vagrancy. No you cant torture a suspected murderer. (Do I need to continue this).... But in war time (as far as I know, the USA is still fighting the war on terror) enemies are treated a such.
As for this thread, you all win, I give up. :thumb:
America is the only country at fault here and a group on a video game message board says so.
Matthew on 22/9/2006 at 11:00
Y'know, I was trying to think of a witty zing, but then I realised that jprobs' post needs no zing. It stand on its own as a monument to why the whole thing is fucked up.
ercles on 22/9/2006 at 11:04
Quote Posted by jprobs
As for this thread, you all win, I give up. :thumb:
America is the only country at fault here and a group on a video game message board says so.
Just goes to prove how well founded some of those faiths you have in your countries actions are when they get challenged in a rational sense. And just because this is a videogame board how do you know that some of these people aren't well qualified to comment on this topic? There are a lot of users on here who's opinions I value highly because they make intelligent and well constructed arguments. It's incredibly arrogant to just say "I don't have to accept your opinion on my country because you guys talk on a videogame board. Incase you haven't noticed, TTLG has a lot more to offer than that.
Oh and just for the record, I don't think we ever really took the line of argument that America is the only country at blame.
Agent Monkeysee on 22/9/2006 at 15:33
Motherfuckers. Goddammit this country is fucked.
Swiss Mercenary on 22/9/2006 at 17:04
Since the war on terror will never end, yeah, jprobs, you are essentially saying that you don't see anything wrong with plucking a guy off the street, and sending him to your friends in Syria.
Pyrian on 22/9/2006 at 22:20
Quote Posted by jprobs
First off, Our founding fathers fought for the rights of Americans, the man in the story is canadian.
Take a moment sometime and read the declaration of independence. You clearly don't have the foggiest notion of what they fought for.
Quote Posted by jprobs
And no, I am not advocating plucking anyone at will off the street and taking them off to be toutured and shot, however you would like to twist what I said.
You ARE advocating exactly that, even if you don't support that happening; it is the precise effect of what you DO support. I explained that already at some length.
Quote Posted by jprobs
(you also added words to my quote)
I corrected your quote, and declared it in the standard used on this board.
Quote Posted by jprobs
No, you cant torture a 5 year old for stealing a piece of bubble gum. No you cant torture a bum for vagrancy. No you cant torture a suspected murderer. (Do I need to continue this)....
The laws under discussion allow all of these things to occur. There is NO functional limit to what the government can do under the circumstances proposed. If Bush decided to create the Gestapo, he'd be completely within his rights if all this goes through.
The only question is, is the president a totalitarian dictator or isn't he? The effect of your position is to claim that he
is.
Quote Posted by jprobs
America is the only country at fault here...
Another tired, stupid meme with no basis in reality. We're trying to stop the U.S. from becoming as bad as, say, Syria. You're trying to make us no different than the terrorists; kidnapping innocents, torturing them, and then ultimately executing them - all without anything resembling justice. Real nice.
Deep Qantas on 23/9/2006 at 00:53
Fuck you, jprobs. Fuck you.
Shug on 23/9/2006 at 01:29
Quote Posted by jprobs
No, you cant torture a 5 year old for stealing a piece of bubble gum. No you cant torture a bum for vagrancy.
That sounds suspiciously like a CHALLENGE
BEAR on 23/9/2006 at 01:42
Wow, you JUST heard about this? This made me sick along time ago.
Also syria is totally in the axis of evil, but damn those bitches can torture.
