ercles on 22/9/2006 at 00:04
That's a retarded argument, and hows about responding to my points bub?
jprobs on 22/9/2006 at 00:16
What point?
"...Yes, America does get a lot of heat when it screws up, but you guys need to realise that this is something that comes with being the most powerful nation in the world...." Uhm, okay. Americans are well aware of that fact and we certainly don't need it pointed out to us agian, but I thank you for reminding me of something I already knew.
"...Also, this is not the first act of this nature committed by the U.S. (David Hicks has been in and out of the news down here for god knows how long), and as such it is building up quite a case against the fine nation of America, which is also why people take special interest when something like this happens...." And it will inevitably happen again, so what's your point?? The US makes mistakes? Yep, already knew that.
ercles on 22/9/2006 at 00:26
If you already knew that, why the hell did you ask why the story gets more attention than it deserves?
jprobs on 22/9/2006 at 01:14
Quote Posted by ercles
If you already knew that, why the hell did you ask why the story gets more attention than it deserves?
Let me re-phrase my point... "Why is this PARTICULAR story such a big deal that somebody would be "DISGUSTED" at the lack of the average american not knowing about it?"
There are alot more stories of this nature out there to the point of you can't keep them straight. And it will keep happening agian and again.
The Canadian's put the mark on this guy, but yet America is blasted in the international press for it? Where is the logic in that? And the Canadian Intelligence service knows damn well what the CIA does in regards to "extraordinary rendition".
SD on 22/9/2006 at 01:39
Quote Posted by jprobs
The Canadian's put the mark on this guy, but yet America is blasted in the international press for it? Where is the logic in that?
Uh, you read the bit where the Americans sent him to be tortured in Syria, right?
jprobs on 22/9/2006 at 01:45
Uhm, yes I did.... On someone elses bad intelligence.
SD on 22/9/2006 at 01:49
Ah, okay. I'm one of those misguided individuals who thinks it's wrong to torture people whether they're guilty or innocent, which would make the "someone else's bad intelligence" bit rather moot.
jprobs on 22/9/2006 at 02:20
Quote Posted by Strontium Dog
Ah, okay. I'm one of those misguided individuals who thinks it's wrong to torture people whether they're guilty or innocent, which would make the "someone else's bad intelligence" bit rather moot.
But he was guilty, according to Canadian intelligence. So the innocent part now becomes moot. And I have no problem torturing someone guilty of plotting or commiting terrorism.
Pyrian on 22/9/2006 at 02:33
Quote Posted by jprobs
But he was guilty, according to Canadian intelligence. So the innocent part now becomes moot. And I have no problem torturing someone
accused of of plotting or commiting terrorism.
Fixed.
Yikes, this sort of nonsense is scary. Your location says you're in Florida, so presumably you're American. Presumably you've heard of the presumption of innocence, yes? And you call that moot?
You're throwing the blame for torture - bad enough in itself - on the basis of hearsay?
Perhaps we
are doomed. With people like you as citizens, the rights our founders fought so hard for will not stand against the greed of our leaders. Eventually, we'll be no better than Syria, and there will be no need to outsource such vile crimes against humanity.
EDIT: I really don't think anybody who believe there is ANY justification for torture deserves to even BE an American. You should leave the country. Your values are antithetical to freedom.
EDIT 2: Allow me to expand on that for a moment. If the government has the right to grab anybody they want without having to justify why and then punish that person to any extreme - Bush right now is pushing for a system that will allow them to torture an individual, force a "confession" through pain, and then execute them in a secret trial based on torture-extracted "information" - if that comes to pass, then we have
no rights at all. This is because all rights - free speech, assembly, whatever - derive ultimately from the right to a fair trial. If the Bush Republicans get their way, they'll be able to decide, for instance, that people who oppose their policies are "terrorists", take them away, torture them into "confession" (or just fake it) and then execute them. This isn't some extreme notion - it's how totalitarianism has always worked.
There is no reason for torture (contrary to any number of TV shows in movies, it's useless at extracting REAL information)
except as a way to institute totalitarian rule.
That's the direction our country is headed in, and it's a lot more dangerous than a few cowards hiding in caves on the opposite side of the world.
SD on 22/9/2006 at 02:35
Quote Posted by jprobs
But he was guilty, according to Canadian intelligence.
Leaving your warped moral compass to one side for a moment, isn't it just lovely that we live in a world where innocence and guilt can be decided by secretive goverment agencies.
Golly gosh, I feel safer already :D
