Andarthiel on 25/4/2007 at 09:31
I was surprised to hear from my Mum that Yeltsin actually hated Gorbachev.
He was the one who forcefully removed him in the first place.
I wouldn't say that he was the best president but he got rid of communism and that's not a bad thing(and I'm a former Soviet citizen).
Fingernail on 25/4/2007 at 10:15
They drink a lot of vodka out there is what I heard!
scumble on 25/4/2007 at 10:23
I still think it's not really a great idea to credit one man with "getting rid" of a system that was pretty much falling apart. There were some positives but a few people ended up with most of the previously state-owned assets. As usual with this kind of "privatization" you don't get something like a market economy, you get an oligopoly. Additionally, we get these "oligarchs" buying all the property in London and half our Football clubs...
I hope Russia can move on from this as well.
Rogue Keeper on 25/4/2007 at 10:36
I observe an interesting cult of personality around every country leader in the crowd of Russian citizens, no matter whether they were former communist "Batyushkas" or modern "democrats". I value Gorbachev the most, because 1. he was an intellectual 2. he had guts to bring a wind of perestroika/glasnost change to rotting Communist system. From what I heard many Russians don't like Gorbachev and and I wonder why, do they perceive his intellectualism as too weak? Or the New Russians are not satisfied that he didn't want to destroy Communism completely, just reform it ?
In my opinion Yeltsin was just a mindless puppet, barely able to think and he had some nice alcoholic excesses in public (but that's not unusual for presidents everywhere).
I understand that leading such a big country is a very difficult task and demands a heavy hand, difficult moral decisions which can make some groups suffer. Recently I saw a good documentary film about Putin's cult of personality. In fact, Volodya has become a pop-icon in the country. Not a pretty sight - intelligence services removing inconvenient journalists, subtle control of mass media, extensive presidential competencies which are unamigable for true democracy... At the end of the documentary a female journalist (one of those less inconvenient - that's probably why she still lives) drives a car while the radio plays a song "I want a man like Putin" by some naive teenage stars and she notes off-screen "I wonder when this country will be finally normal".
And what is more curious, Gorbachev has been quite upset in another interview about how the West doesn't understand conditions in Russia and that Putin's heavy hand is the warrant of security and prosperity.
Oh well. Once again there is a choice between bigger and lesser evil. Even though Putin is such a controversial figure, perhaps he's a better option than Yeltsin was, and the most competent person to lead Russia at this time. Perhaps less corrupted by maffia and just for the fact he doesn't drink, if nothing else.
Good luck then, Batyushka Putin. In the meantime, a new Cold War can be seen on the horizon. :rolleyes:
d'Spair on 25/4/2007 at 11:17
The first six messages in the thread surely rock.
Swiss Mercenary on 25/4/2007 at 16:15
Quote Posted by Andarthiel
I was surprised to hear from my Mum that Yeltsin actually hated Gorbachev.
Hated? I'd say that it was probably just desire for power.
Quote:
I wouldn't say that he was the best president but he got rid of communism and that's not a bad thing(and I'm a former Soviet citizen).
Perestroika, Glasnost, as well as the collapse of the Warsaw Pact were Gorbachev's doings (In contrary to what Bush Sr. might claim), rather then Yetsin's. I am somewhat certain that he wanted to stop it around there, but with public discourse permitted, that did not happen.
Quote:
From what I heard many Russians don't like Gorbachev and and I wonder why, do they perceive his intellectualism as too weak? Or the New Russians are not satisfied that he didn't want to destroy Communism completely, just reform it ?
My grandfather, who was born in the late 20s particularly likes Gorbachev (And Khrushev, for that matter) - and has no end of things to say about how much Yeltsin's friends have plundered the country. The next generation in my family is more pro-Yeltsin, in the respect that he took various freedoms, including the freedom to leave the country far further then Gorbachev did, or would have.
Quote:
In my opinion Yeltsin was just a mindless puppet, barely able to think and he had some nice alcoholic excesses in public (but that's not unusual for
Russian leaders elsewhere).
There.
User123abc on 25/4/2007 at 18:27
Quote Posted by Swiss Mercenary
Quote:
he had some nice alcoholic excesses in public (but that's not unusual for
Russians everywhere).
In this respect, he was a man of the people.
I'm Ukrainian, ethnically Russian. I speak from experience.
d'Spair on 25/4/2007 at 20:58
It's sad to see that along with some punsters the thread attracts a number of morons as well.
(I'm Russian, ethnically Russian, in case you don't realize)
SD on 25/4/2007 at 21:50
Not really getting the relevance a person's ethnicity has here. Are we saying that only people of Russian descent can have a legitimate opinion on Yeltsin's presidency or something?
(My great-grandparents were Lithuanian Jews so I feel this permits me to have a say)
