Hit Deity on 29/12/2022 at 18:19
I definitely think you're onto something there. Especially as long as there are people like me constantly trying to muck things up. ;-)
Jax64 on 30/12/2022 at 15:42
Quote Posted by FenPhoenix
I could easily detect un-fingerprinted dmls and inform the user, but some notes:
This is an interesting idea. The number of cases that you would have to account for and the required overhead is significant, though. As such, I am not sure whether this would be feasible to implement. Determining whether a non-fingerprinted mission-specific DML itself is out of place should be fairly straightforward, as DMLs either have a pattern to their filenames or are placed in specific subdirectories (Mission-specific DMLs do not necessarily adhere to the *.mis.dml pattern. For example, mission DMLs located in dbmods/miss20.mis/ can have arbitrary names.). However, this would require keeping track of and querying all paths that the game loads dbmods from.
Quote Posted by klatremus
This is one of the reasons I don't like the T2FMDML pack. Whenever I start a new mission I just look in the brief summaries list for any .dml and create it manually inside the specific FM's directory. That way I can also check what kind of fixes have been applied. Some of them I don't like. Sure it's an extra step, but I feel I have more control.
It is true that manually installing the DMLs offers more control over the fixes applied, as the nature of how the DMLs offered by T2FMDML are loaded means that it is an all-or-nothing affair. However, if it would be of use, we could supply a selector program along with it that allows for manually enabling or disabling the DMLs included in the package. Something like this could also include information on what the DML actually changes, as well as an option to enable only specific parts of it.
FenPhoenix on 30/12/2022 at 18:30
Quote Posted by Jax64
This is an interesting idea. The number of cases that you would have to account for and the required overhead is significant, though. As such, I am not sure whether this would be feasible to implement. Determining whether a non-fingerprinted mission-specific DML itself is out of place should be fairly straightforward, as DMLs either have a pattern to their filenames or are placed in specific subdirectories (Mission-specific DMLs do not necessarily adhere to the *.mis.dml pattern. For example, mission DMLs located in dbmods/miss20.mis/ can have arbitrary names.). However, this would require keeping track of and querying all paths that the game loads dbmods from.
Ah, so there's more to it then. Looking at the dbmod-sample.dml in the newdark docs, the rules seem to be fairly complicated and it would be easy to make a mistake on my end with the detection algorithm. For what it's worth, for my copy of Thief 2 with T2FMDML installed, the performance is like this:
For just scanning all .mis.dml files outside of FM folders, with disk cache cold:
~50ms on a SATA SSD
~120ms on my slowest spinning HDD
Cache warm would be substantially faster of course, this is just worst case.
For only scanning files named missxx.mis.dml (so rejecting all T2FMDML ones), it's basically instantaneous, because now it will only have to look at the ones in the base dir and then any rogue missxx.mis.dml files elsewhere, which in my testing was just one (I purposely put the Rowena's Curse one into the usermods folder to test detection).
So if I'm able to do the optimization where I can exclude most of them from the scan, then the overhead is negligble. Otherwise, the overhead is... not the end of the world but not really a hit you'd want to take for detecting a rare issue.
But anyway, getting the detection exactly accurate to the rules would still be the other thing. I certainly don't want to have any false positives, annoying the user and misinforming them.
Hit Deity on 30/1/2023 at 05:03
Wow. First mission complete. This was released in 2008?? Doesn't seem possible. So many cutscenes in this one, and special effects... It's hard to believe this was made with OldDark.
I admit that I'm rushing it a bit but that's because the level(s) are so huge. I want to find out the end.
FenPhoenix on 30/1/2023 at 06:40
Aesthetically, the second mission is among the best OldDark has to offer, up there with the likes of Rose Cottage and Rocksbourg 3. And of course the story and gameplay are fantastic too :)
Hit Deity on 30/1/2023 at 19:11
That mirrored floor looked out of this world.
Quote Posted by FenPhoenix
Aesthetically, the second mission is among the best OldDark has to offer, up there with the likes of Rose Cottage and Rocksbourg 3. And of course the story and gameplay are fantastic too :)
What do think are the best that NewDark has to offer, so I can compare?
Broken Triad was such a huge jump in technical achievement.. wondering if there was a big leap with NewDark that might compare.
Hit Deity on 31/1/2023 at 03:47
Quote Posted by FenPhoenix
Aesthetically, the second mission is among the best OldDark has to offer, up there with the likes of Rose Cottage and Rocksbourg 3. And of course the story and gameplay are fantastic too :)
What do think are the best that NewDark has to offer, so I can compare?
Broken Triad was such a huge jump in technical achievement.. wondering if there was a big leap with NewDark that might compare.
downwinder on 31/1/2023 at 03:54
new mantle alone was a massive upgrade, due to how it can be used in fan missions to give way more options in gameplay
FenPhoenix on 31/1/2023 at 04:00
Keeper of Infinity is hands down the best looking NewDark FM I've personally seen. Pretty frustrating to play, but stunning to look at.
Second mission of Godbreaker also (the swamp one), darkly gorgeous and atmospheric.
Others could chime in.
baeuchlein on 31/1/2023 at 04:54
I also thought of "KoI", and the swamp mission of "Godbreaker" is also stunning. There are a few other missions and sceneries that come to mind.
In "Breaking the Stone", the view from high places in the first mission is brilliant. On the other hand, "King's Story", made for OldDark AFAIK, also provides some stunning views, especially while approaching the castle in the first mission.
Zontik also built some great loacations in the "Patriot" campaign. My personal favourite is again the view from high places in mission 7, where Garrett moves around in a recreation of Mont-Saint-Michel. That place also has lots of rooms, objects etc., and I'm not sure whether OldDark would be able to handle such a place.
I also like the looks of the city in Cardia's first mission of "FTM Life", although the mission itself is not exactly up my alley. And my poor graphics cards and rather slow computers don't make it any better. No idea whether one needs NewDark to provide this view, or whether OldDark would also be enough.
"Rebellion of the Builder 2" also had some good views, but not so many, as far as I remember. One that stayed in my mind is the flight deck of the zeppelin in the last mission.
Some places with great views I also remember from "The Scarlet Cascabel" or "Return to the Lost City".
Lots of missions also look good, but I'm not always sure whether they needed NewDark for their splendor, so I didn't mention these here.
... hmmm, we possibly should create a separate thread for all this, as it is not about "Broken Triad" anymore.
