*Zaccheus* on 28/1/2004 at 22:38
As far as I know, the problem with in-breeding is that defective genes are passed on instead of being diluted.
And yes, I believe that the creation account in the bible is true.
:)
the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 22:44
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They are in deed God's chosen people, although I think Jesus (also a jew) was quite clear on the need to believe in Him.
i'd actually point to Romans where Paul outlines that not all people who are Jews are actually God's chosen people, and not all Gentiles are not (and Paul himself was a Jew).
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As far as I know, the problem with in-breeding is that defective genes are passed on instead of being diluted.
Exactly.
*Zaccheus* on 28/1/2004 at 22:52
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Originally posted by the_grip i'd actually point to Romans where Paul outlines that not all people who are Jews are actually God's chosen people, and not all Gentiles are not (and Paul himself was a Jew)
I think we are using the term 'chosen people' differently.
I'm not saying they automatically belong to 'the kingdom' in the christian sense, but that they still have the same special place in God's heart.
Agent Monkeysee on 28/1/2004 at 23:04
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Originally posted by *Zaccheus* If the 'Hells Angels' Motorcycle chaps start calling themselves 'Jesus Christ Angels', that would not mean that they are christians.
If they proclaimed belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ I'd say that's enough to brand them Christians.
But then I seem to remember arguing with you about this before. You had some sort of wacky definition that excluded a lot of people that most would consider Christian.
Convict on 28/1/2004 at 23:09
My understanding is that there are no more Jews and Gentiles (ie God doesn't discriminate between them) but also Paul argues that being a Jew has many advantages in every way - e.g. entrusted with the very words of God(Romans 3:2)
*Zaccheus* on 28/1/2004 at 23:11
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Originally posted by Agent Monkeysee If they proclaimed belief in the divinity of Jesus Christ I'd say that's enough to brand them Christians.
In that case there are a lot of christian pagans.
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Originally posted by Agent Monkeysee But then I seem to remember arguing with you about this before. You had some sort of wacky definition that excluded a lot of people that most would consider Christian.
Weren't we debating how 'christianity' is defined?
I think I was saying that a christian can hold views which are not compatible with biblical christianity.
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Originally posted by Convict My understanding is that there are no more Jews and Gentiles
In a sense that is true, but have a look at Romans 11:28+29;
In fact, the whole of Romans 11 is quite interesting in this context.
Convict on 28/1/2004 at 23:15
Inbreeding is not a problem per se (except for moral issues but hey - lets be relativistic here). Inbreeding increases the probability that the two copies of any given gene will be identical and derived from the same ancestor. If the father and mother are related, there is a chance that the two genes in the offspring are both identical copies contributed by the common ancestor. This is neither good nor bad in itself. Inbreeding can thus bring undesirable recessive genes to the surface, creating babies with deformations. Good (normal) genes will not cause a problem.
GayleSaver on 28/1/2004 at 23:18
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Originally posted by Uncia There were just wars? I must have been sleeping during my history classes...
Snap, snap, good little puppy. You're right.
Why do we deceive ourselves about our basic nature?
the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 23:21
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My understanding is that there are no more Jews and Gentiles (ie God doesn't discriminate between them) but also Paul argues that being a Jew has many advantages in every way - e.g. entrusted with the very words of God(Romans 3:2)
i'm paraphrasing a bunch of passages here, but there still is a distinction between Jew and Gentile, however, Gentiles have been "grafted in" to the tree that is Israel (Romans) - also note, however, that there were Gentiles in the OT that were presumably saved (most obvious is Ruth from the book of Ruth). However, God does not distinguish between the two in terms of favoring one over the other (i.e. Peter's vision on the roof of the clean and unclean animals in Acts). Jews and Gentiles are saved, but God has not forgotten Jews who believe in him and, as Zaccheus put it, they do hold a special place in his heart (from what i understand).
Romans 3 is Paul explaining how just being raised a "Jew" (i.e. circumcision, etc.) does not necessarily give salvation to a person, rather it is Christ alone (which he gets to later). He essentially condemns all of mankind then shows how the mercy of God has been given to those who believe in him in the death and resurrection of Jesus. In Romans 3:2, he is countering the argument of, "Ok Paul, why does it matter if one is a Jew? Is it worthless?" Part of his answer (Rom 3:2) explains that they had the very words of God before Gentiles did, that God spoke directly to them and that those who believed knew of God's salvation which was to come in Christ. Does that make any sense?
GayleSaver on 28/1/2004 at 23:22
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Originally posted by the_grip i'd actually point to Romans where Paul outlines that not all people who are Jews are actually God's chosen people, and not all Gentiles are not (and Paul himself was a Jew).
"Saul," Nazarene.
Don't you know that Jews are the avaricious enemies of mankind? That their pact with the devil is timeless?
Don't you know that they can't stay Jews if Jesus is to come down from the sky?
By the way, your Jew in the New Testament is a metaphor for hypocrisy, not the cause of hatred. That he was used as an excuse for genocide makes no difference; if he were not there, then another excuse would have floated up.
