the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 21:13
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I'm sure other churches wouldn't think you were either.
You could be right. What i'm referring to is the definition of Christian, both historically and Biblically. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus was the son of God and was God and died for all the sins of those who believe in him, once and for all. Mormons interpret "Christian" as someone who follows the book of Mormon, which, in turn, advocates that you must be obedient to the commandments of God (i.e. the Ten Commandments, etc.) in addition to believing in Jesus. Mormons would also argue that the Bible was misinterpreted up until Smith corrected this error (thus, i tend to even think of the Mormons as more of a cult than a religion).
There are tons and tons of people/groups that call themselves Christian, now and throughout history. i look only to the Bible to define Christian, not the Bible plus extra literature.
Aside from that, let's call them Christians for discussion's sake. i would still refer to my previous post to indicate their error, and i would agree with you that they are being hypocritical.
However, it should be said that i do not define who is a Christian... only God knows the heart of men and women. There could definitely be Chrstians in the Mormon church just as there can be people who are not Christian in other religous groups that don the title of Christian (Catholics, Protestants, etc.). i'm not the judge, but i'm just calling the group as a whole as i see it (and heaven knows i can be wrong more often than not).
the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 21:19
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Christian Pacifists make no sense. When people did bad things, God killed them, he killed thousands of egyptians, drowned armies, flooded planets, turned cities into salt. So why of why are there christians against violence and war, aslong as they are for actual reasons.
War is good when it is just, it's just that there are not many just wars (i.e. Iraq).
{edit}...what i mean is that Iraq is not a just war{/edit}
Uncia on 28/1/2004 at 21:23
There were just wars? I must have been sleeping during my history classes...
the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 21:26
i guess i use the term "war" loosely... i.e. the Allied forces going to war against the Axis constitutes as just to me (from the Allied perspective). i'd point to that as an example.
Defensive wars i should probably say.
John D. on 28/1/2004 at 21:29
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Because Jesus rose from the dead on the day after the Sabbath, the first day of the week, which we now happen to call Sunday, the christians would meet together on that day.
From what I've read Sunday worship was incorporated around the time of Constantine's 'conversion' in the 4th century. Like Christmas and Easter, it was a pagan holiday absorbed and given a Christian meaning in order to try to gain converts.
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What part of Jesus Christ, hence "Christians", did you miss out on?
There's plenty of cults that claim their version of 'Jesus' as their own-which doesnt mean it's the real one. Plenty of studies have been done of Mormon doctrine and how it differs from the Old and New testament-the best one IMO is
The God Makers by Ed Decker and Dave Hunt. As for conflict, true Christianity cannot be imposed though warfare, however I believe Christians can fight to protect their country and fellow citizens as well as to have arms to defend themselves from criminal assault (Luke 22:36) Jesus told us to love our neighbors, so if your neighbor is being assaulted, taking action is a must.
*Zaccheus* on 28/1/2004 at 21:31
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Originally posted by Uncia There were just wars? I must have been sleeping during my history classes...
Me too.
The church's track record on 'just wars' is not very good.
And I really don't recall Jesus or the Apostles telling christians to invade yonder countries.
:erg:
Eshaktaar on 28/1/2004 at 21:32
While we're at it, where the heck did Cain's wife come from?
the_grip on 28/1/2004 at 21:36
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From what I've read Sunday worship was incorporated around the time of Constantine's 'conversion' in the 4th century. Like Christmas and Easter, it was a pagan holiday absorbed and given a Christian meaning in order to try to gain converts.
Actually it comes from the New Testament... i don't have the passages right now, but the Apostles and early Christians met on the first day of the Hebrew week, which is Sunday. There is some evidence that Christ himself advocated this, but i could be wrong (it's been awhile since i looked at it). i'm positive though that the reason stems from the practices of the early church. i'll look it up tonight if i can (i think Gonzalez's
The History of Christianity, Vol I shows the history of it... great book if anyone wants to read on the history of the Christian church).
*Zaccheus* on 28/1/2004 at 21:39
I've just found this:
Acts 20:7;
"On the first day of the week, when we were gathered to break bread, Paul began talking to them ..."
John D. on 28/1/2004 at 21:51
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Acts 20:7; On the first day of the week, when we were gathered to break bread, Paul began talking to them
But does the Hebrew calender coincide with our own modern 7 day week? Do you know VK?
