*Zaccheus* on 29/1/2004 at 01:06
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Originally posted by John D. I've taken biology classes myself, not to mention the fact I'm a college graduate (Orignially a history major, but I switched to gen studies because I didnt want to bother with the foriegn language requirement) so I dont rate in the 'ignorant' department.
In that case you might want to have a look at this book (written by an 'evolutionist'):
(
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/091756152X/002-7702812-0498459?v=glance) Evolution: A Theory in Crisis
Chimpy Chompy on 29/1/2004 at 01:15
If there are holes in Evolution, time for a new model based on what we have observed of the world. Not chucking reason out of the window and opting for "God clicked his fingers and pulled the world out of a hat". Let's see what the universe itself tells us, not some holy book.
John D. on 29/1/2004 at 01:18
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Ignorant fundamentalist literalist "piety" is damaging the entire world as we speak, via the Whitehouse and other huts.
Considering Bush's remarks after 9/11-which called Islam a 'great religion' :eww: and his chipping away at the seperation of Church and state through his 'faith based initiatives' which propose to fuel religious charities/organiztions with tax money (and thereby make them dependent on the government/enslaved) I would say his 'fundamentalist piety' has little to do with true Christianity.
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Concealed weapons in Mormon churches is a needful and good thing??
Hmm, I havent heard of that.:confused:
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Why do so many Americans act as if they live in the Gaza Strip or Kabul? This communal insanity buttessed by the Bible would be considered certifiably nutso everywhere else but in the "religious" war hotspots scattered around the globe. Should all Irish carry Uzis to church because of Luke (the doctor, OMFGawd, teh irony)?
I dont recall suicide bombers going off anywhere near my house, so I think the Gaza/Kabul analogy breaks down. And I can tell you that the Bible has little to do with anything that goes on in the United States these days.
*Zaccheus* on 29/1/2004 at 01:21
I'm not saying you should believe the bible because there are holes in evolution.
Just responding to the "but evolution is proven" argument.
:)
John D. on 29/1/2004 at 01:22
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Let's see what the universe itself tells us, not some holy book.
No problem with that. I think the more open and honest scientific inquiry is, the more we'll find out God's account of creation is the true one.
TBE on 29/1/2004 at 01:24
I used to be a Neanderthal.......according to my ex-wife.
If evolution is wrong, and God put everything on this Earth, then why did dinosaurs and small mammals live here for millions of years before humans? If humans were put here by God, why are there fossils of hominids all over the Earth, and they show progressions towards higher evolution based on time dating?
This argument can go on and on. Most Creationists I've argued with state that these early animals were the ones God put here before man, as described in Genesis. These animals had no relation to man, and man was unique. Unique? How many other upright walking homosapien-type mammals were there? A lot! The DNA of primates like Orangutans and Chimpanzees are like 97% the same as ours. I don't think that's a coincidence. In MY OPINION, we evolved from earlier upright walking hominids.
Ask me the day after I die, and I may tell you differently, but until then, EVOLUTION ROXORS!
*Zaccheus* on 29/1/2004 at 01:32
Who knows. Maybe there is something fundamentally flawed in our dating techniques. Perhaps we need better chat up lines. More hair gell.
Regarding dinos, I find it interesting that cultures around the world have stories of dragons.
Ok, it's 1:40am in the UK, I'm signing off.
:)
jay pettitt on 29/1/2004 at 01:32
ooops, look what I started.:devil:
I know the thread title is pointedly religeous - but I was tired and drunk and aiming at a cheap pun - bloody as in tsk tsk, bloody as in grusome. :-)
(so.. apologies to zacch and john d. for having to single handedly defend the christian faith from the mob - keep it friendly people :-) )
I've spent 10 years working in the field (geddit) of conservation, and I don't mind saying that for me evolution theory makes a lot of sense. I also don't mind saying that most peoples idea of 'survival of the fittest' is way off the mark.
But it is evolution theory, not evolution fact.
we also share nearly 2/3 our dna with the lettuce...(so I hear)
Crion on 29/1/2004 at 02:09
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Originally posted by John D. Hmm, I havent heard of that.:confused: I dont recall suicide bombers going off anywhere near my house, so I think the Gaza/Kabul analogy breaks down.
I believe that was the point. We don't really live in some warzone or a place with no authority and all the bad guys run around AKs so what do we need all the guns for?
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Originally posted by jay pettitt But it is evolution theory, not evolution fact.
Yes, subject to revisions in light of new evidence or alternate theories rather than the Bible thumper's "THIS HAPPENED JUST LIKE THIS AND NO OTHER WAY. NO SHUT UP, UR GO 2 HELL"
The problem lies with that book being taken literally. That's no dictionary (in terms frank accuracy) and far from a historic record.
Agent Monkeysee on 29/1/2004 at 02:41
A nitpick:
Evolution is a fact. Like GBM said you observe it every day.
The Theory of Natural Selection is the theory and is what most of you mean when you say "Evolution hasn't been proven". It's an understandable mixup because the terms are used interchangably all the time. But these things need to be precise if you want to argue as to their merits.
Also I find it unusual that, if Natural Selection is in such a state of crisis, there aren't more giddy biologists running around. The first biologist to find a viable theory of life that would topple natural selection would have a big fat Nobel Prize waiting for them.
That is all. I've been down this road too many times around here and found it to be a colossal waste of time.
