june gloom on 30/5/2014 at 17:04
I don't know, I think Bisshock 2's atmosphere is much stronger than the original.
ZylonBane on 30/5/2014 at 19:01
Quote Posted by froghawk
Well the first one is basically only good up until the encounter with Ryan, so you made a good choice.
Up to and including, or just up to the "A man chooses, a cutscene obeys" bit?
Ostriig on 31/5/2014 at 11:04
I understand the instinctive reaction to rubbish that bit, but only a non-interactive cutscene made sense in that plot context. Arguably, simply preventing the player from carrying on until they went Donald Trump on Ryan might've been some nice meta commentary, but that would've been coercing the player rather than puppeteering the character, and on a diegetic level it would have implied some degree of self-control and choice.
Let's put it to the test - would you kindly say something snarky? No?
ZylonBane on 5/6/2014 at 17:53
Quote Posted by Ostriig
I understand the instinctive reaction to rubbish that bit, but only a non-interactive cutscene made sense in that plot context.
Non-interactive, yes. Cutscene, no. Bringing in the letterbox bars during this scene was a huge mistake, because it's the universal videogame signal for "You are now in a cutscene. Set the controller down and just watch, your guy is about to do a bunch of stuff without your input." This completely undercut what was supposed to be so special about this sequence-- your character acting against his/the player's will. But instead of me going "WTF no why am I doing that?!", my reaction was just that of someone who had already accepted that I was going to be momentarily deprived of control, because hello,
cutscene?Astoundingly for having screwed this up, there's a part earlier in the game where if you try to leave a section of Rapture before you're supposed to, Atlas tells you not to and your character promptly turns around and walks away from the station, without the cutscene bars dropping in.
Aja on 5/6/2014 at 18:18
That's assuming, though, that the main reason for enjoying that cutscene is for its fourth-wall-breaking properties. I agree with you that removing the bars would have made the scene more appropriate in that regard, but it wouldn't have changed my emotional reaction to it, and the emotional reaction is, I think, more important than the realization that my character's plight is also my own outside of the game. I see that more as just a wink at the audience, and I doubt it was as important to the devs as making sure that the horror and surprise of the situation was effectively conveyed.
ZylonBane on 5/6/2014 at 18:20
Quote Posted by Aja
That's assuming, though, that the main reason for enjoying that cutscene is for its fourth-wall-breaking properties.
It's an entirely reasonable assumption, considering how many easily-impressed reviewers hailed the whole "would you kindly" thing as some genius-level metacommentary on player agency in gaming.
Ostriig on 5/6/2014 at 18:35
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Non-interactive, yes. Cutscene, no. Bringing in the letterbox bars during this scene was a huge mistake, because it's the universal videogame signal for "You are now in a cutscene. Set the controller down and just watch, your guy is about to do a bunch of stuff without your input." [...]
Well fuck, I'm going to go cut me a slice of humble pie. I hadn't considered that distinction, but you're right, it should've been done in such a way that the player would've naturally expected to remain in control and the cutscene "interface" removes that expectation. I
did just sit and wait for it to play out.
A matter of detail but it's significant. I stand corrected.
Quote Posted by Aja
I see that more as just a wink at the audience, and I doubt it was as important to the devs as making sure that the horror and surprise of the situation was effectively conveyed.
Would playing it out without the visual cutscene markers have necessarily diminished that, though? Sure, if it were the exact same scene without the cutsecene bars you'd run the risk of the players shifting their attention to the controller, but I imagine you could rework it to ease them in with just a couple of extra lines.
An example, Ryan throws the player his golf club and invites Jack to do his thing - and for this part you can leave the player in full control and wait - but when they go for it or if they switch to a different weapon, Ryan asks if they'd kindly stop, then if they'd kindly pay attention so that the game can wrest control of the camera away, and then the rest of the scene plays out roughly the same as it does now.
Just off the top of my head. Basically, a way to insert the idea of loss of control without resorting to an interface indicator, but at the same time without risk of breaking flow for the player.
Aja on 5/6/2014 at 19:21
Quote Posted by Ostriig
Would playing it out without the visual cutscene markers have necessarily diminished that, though?
No. I agree that it would be better without the cutscene markers, but I don't think their presence significantly dimishes the impact of the scene. Even though reviewers did harp on the meta aspect, I doubt they would've done so if it weren't such an emotionally affective moment.
N'Al on 3/7/2014 at 11:16
(
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-03-fox-news-uses-bioshock-infinite-logo-to-defend-the-homeland) I'll just leave this here.
In other news, I recently completed
Infinite in 1999 mode. Wasn't too bad in the end. It's all about finding the right Gear and Vigor combinations.
Electric Punch/Touch or Burning Halo, Blood to Salt, Brittle-Skinned, and Vampire's Embrace or Overkill, plus a fully-upgraded Charge lets you defeat most enemies in one hit, for example. The only real difficult fights are the ones against Handymen, and the first Siren fight in the graveyard (the other two, for some reason, were nowhere near as bad).
Fully upgraded Return to Sender traps on the engine help tremendously during the final battle, too.
Renault on 25/3/2015 at 17:02
I must have this weird thing for anniversaries lately. Infinite is two years old today. Feels like it came out a lot longer than that though, for some reason.
The strange thing is, I never completed the game when it came out, and just yesterday I suddenly out-of-the-blue decided to install and finally finish the thing, not realizing the date significance. Gonna try to plow throw the main game and all the DLC now, without stopping.
Wonder if we'll ever see another Bioshock game. The next setting would probably have to be on the moon or something crazy like that.
