froghawk on 22/4/2013 at 01:38
Sorry to tell you this fett, but the plot only gets less coherent from there.
june gloom on 22/4/2013 at 03:35
Made perfect sense to me.
EvaUnit02 on 22/4/2013 at 05:05
The plot is spelled out with capslock on to the audience like a big dumb, mainstream Hollywood thriller (post-Shymalan).
Thirith on 22/4/2013 at 06:18
Put me down as a Bioshock Infinite apologist. I think it's a smart, very well made game with an intriguing, engaging (and pretty coherent) plot. I don't think it quite warrants the hyperbole it received in some quarters, and I do think there are some definite flaws in the writing, but neither do I think it deserves the backlash that IMO has more to do with the aforementioned hyperbole than with the actual game.
Kuuso on 22/4/2013 at 08:30
I've got the image that people who have read science fiction or seen movies of that kind expect these kind of stories to be at least triple-inception-with-a-dash-of-memento. I think the storytelling in this game was fantastic, be it the enviromental, characterisation or the actual plot. I think Booker's and Elisabeth's voice actors did a great job and there was true chemistry between them (which is rare in gaming imo).
If you want to diss the story, I would lay my eyes on the whole rich/poor dichotomy it presents to be in Columbia and Daisy Fitzgerald. They do not really flesh that out much.
Thirith on 22/4/2013 at 08:56
Quote Posted by Kuuso
If you want to diss the story, I would lay my eyes on the whole rich/poor dichotomy it presents to be in Columbia and Daisy Fitzgerald. They do not really flesh that out much.
Agree. It was effective in the game, but at the same time it goes for a rather facile, problematic false equivalency, which is appealing on the surface but doesn't hold up to close scrutiny.
froghawk on 22/4/2013 at 12:15
What is in any sense 'fantastic' about the characterization? For it to be 'fantastic', the twist at the end would need to be believable, but instead Booker and Comstock look nothing alike, act nothing alike, and don't even have the same voice, and Booker has no real motivation for creating a place like Columbia, and yet that's what the entire plot is hinged around.
I don't expect plot complexity, I just expect the plot to make a single thread of sense and be somewhat focused, instead of haphazardly throwing in whatever 'cool' element Levine felt like at the time. I expect answers to simple questions - why does Elizabeth have superpowers, and what does that have to do with her being your daughter? What is the true nature of these powers, and how/why can they be mechanically restricted? What is the songbird? What are vigors? Etc.
The plot throws all these things at you and simply expects you to swallow them without asking why. It expects the player to follow it on any turn, no matter how out of character or absurd. If this qualifies as 'good writing' these days, then that just goes to show how truly dreadful most games are in that department.
But really, I don't mind a crap story if the gameplay is amazing (see Dishonored), but this was even more of a rote linear arena shooter than Bioshock. And like Bioshock, it was interesting only because of its cool setting and art design. Yet Infinite seems to be set in a politically motivated city in the sky for the sole purpose of connecting it with the first game, and does less with these things than the original. I wasn't much on the original game, but to me, this one doesn't improve on any of its flaws (poor gameplay, story that loses focus) - it actually exacerbates them.
Thirith on 22/4/2013 at 12:41
I sort of agree with you on the twist you mention, but to be honest, that mattered less to me to begin with.
[spoiler]The two versions of Booker have the same starting point, but they've made very different decisions, and the point at which we meet them is 20+ years after that decision. I can buy that a person can be fundamentally different after that much time, but due to this there's not much resonance for me in Booker being Comstock.
However, there's a lot of resonance in Booker having made one major mistake that has made him the man he is when the game takes place, and him being both in denial about what he's done and who he's become yet wanting to undo that one thing works for me, as does his relationship with Elizabeth and how it's developed. That's the heart and soul of the game IMO, and for me it works very well.
On your other points:
- Elizabeth has the powers she has because when Comstock takes her a part of her (the finger) stays behind. The Luteces suspect that her existing in two worlds gives her a measure of control over the worlds and their connections. It doesn't matter directly that she's your daughter.
- The songbird is an equivalent of the Big Daddies. He guards Elizabeth, he's both a protector and a jailer. That much is evident; while it'd be interesting to find out more, it's not something that needs to be explained more to work.
- The vigors are a plot hole, but they're also a gameplay element more than anything else. It's not stated directly, but it's quite possible that Fink saw and stole plasmids from Rapture through tears, the way he heard and stole music.
To be honest, while I understand that you'd ask why, some of these are answered directly, some of these have implied answers based on what we know about the world of the game, and some don't need to be answered.[/spoiler]
Do you know (
http://badassdigest.com/2012/10/30/film-crit-hulk-smash-hulk-vs.-plot-holes-and-movie-logic/) Film Crit Hulk's post on plot holes? For me at least, many of Infinite's (sometimes real, sometimes supposed) plot holes are covered by what he writes. Not all, mind you - I agree the story/writing of the game isn't perfect by far - but some of what you write to my mind simply doesn't matter for this particular story, at least not beyond what we find out in the game.
froghawk on 22/4/2013 at 13:26
I'll agree with your second spoiler paragraph, but I also wasn't emotionally involved by this relationship at all - it all felt rushed and cursory. Also, I must have missed a voxophone regarding the finger. But as for the songbird, there's just too many elements in this game that are there just to provide a parallel to the first game for my tastes (though Big Daddies are split in half - songbird on a story level, handymen on a gameplay level).
You're right, not all of those things need explaining, and I probably wouldn't care about them if I'd actually felt pulled in by the story at all or enjoyed the gameplay, but I found the whole thing to be a rather dull and clinical experience.
Thirith on 22/4/2013 at 13:29
I see where you're coming from re: Infinite arguably aping its predecessor in some ways, yet I enjoyed it a lot more than its Rapture-based predecessors, with especially the first Bioshock never really clicking for me. To me the parallels felt less like a retread than like thematic echoes, commenting on the earlier game, especially in Infinite's final hour or so.
Lots of people suspect that the Songbird will be elaborated on in DLC; I'd definitely be interested in that, but I'd mainly like to see more of the Luteces.
