Bioshock doesn't have the same atmosphere as SSII

Volitions Advocate on 10/9/2007 at 00:45

Has anybody bought the LE edition of bioshock and watched the DVD that came with it? Ken Levine himself SAID he didn't want to remake ss2 with bioshock. Spiritual Successor does not mean a rehash.

There is a huge difference between the two, especially if you're issue is the isolated feeling.

Bioshock is about the breakdown of society. Try to put that sentence anywhere near system shock 2 or ss1 and people are going to wonder what the heck you're talking about. There is very little human element in the system shock series aside from reading logs. Your enemies are all devoid of human reasoning. Whereas in bioshock all the people you deal with have a human character flaw of some sort or another. Rapture is falling apart but its apparent pretty early on that it isn't dead like the von braun or citadel. The people there are still people, crazy as they may be they're still humans and still think like humans.

There is no such things as character flaws or moral decisions in either SS games. I'll grant that the moral dillema in bioshock was a little thin, but that doesn't make it a crappy game.

maybe some ambitious soul will post some clips of the dvd on youtube or something. (not me, not ambitious) but if you get the chance and you're a fan of looking glass/irrational/2k or whatever its worth a look. Ken Levine wanted a very human element in bioshock and I think they did a great job.

If you're a fan of the minds behind these games than just be a fan of the game. Can't you be happy that Ken Levine made the game that he wanted to make? Or does it have to be the game that you wanted him to make?

It's like getting mad at a Band for following their vision in their music instead of what your vision of their music is as a fan. That doesn't make a lot of sense I don't think.

I loved BioShock. It wasn't SS2, and whether or not I liked ss2 better than it. that doesn't make it any less of a great achievement.

Assidragon on 10/9/2007 at 00:54

Actually, there are huge character flaws in SS. Shodan was created as the Hackers and Diego's fault to begin with, and the SS2 is largely playing around Diego's and Korenchkin's mess.

Besides, doesn't "spiritual successor" mean "based on the gameplay of this game"? :p

Kolya on 10/9/2007 at 01:10

Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate

Bioshock is about the breakdown of society. Try to put that sentence anywhere near system shock 2 or ss1 and people are going to wonder what the heck you're talking about. [...]
There is no such things as character flaws or moral decisions in either SS games.

Say what? Breakdown of society? Check. Character flaws? Check, check, check!
And there are many of moral questions that you can ask yourself playing these games. Not all of them can be played out, but from what I hear, that's not Bioshock's strongest part either? In System Shock 2 there is inherently a question posed: Wether you want to join the Many or SHODAN, community or individuality, Walden or Neuromancer? And there is the question, what humanity actually is when staged against the un-human. It's there all the time. That's exactly what elevates these games from a mindless shooter.

Volitions Advocate on 10/9/2007 at 01:24

Quote Posted by Kolya

I did mention that I thought it was a little thin in bioshock. But the people in system shock were forced into what happened to them. in bioshock they werent, they chose to splice themselves. what happened in SS could be better compared to the holocaust or the ownership of slaves than the breakdown of society. The jews didn't chose to be murdered, and neither did the crew of the VB or CS. but the splicers did chose to be freaks. Of course not counting the Diegos and Korenchkin.

Quote:

Besides, doesn't "spiritual successor" mean "based on the gameplay of this game"?

Vita Chambers = Cyborg conversion chambers
Multiple ammo types.
Ability to backtrack (mind you it was not well implemented in bioshock IMO)
RPG elements in an FPS game
the plot twist:
[SPOILER]Politio = Atlas; Shodan = Fontaine; Ryan = the many[/SPOILER]

A lot of things played out the same in bioshock as they did in SS2

Anyway i hope i dont seem like I"m trying to start a flame war.

of course all I say here is IMHO.

Volitions Advocate on 10/9/2007 at 01:27

oh and I still stand by what i said about the team making the game they wanted to make and being proud of it.

they shouldn't have to bend their views to our vision.
just so long as its a game we can enjoy.

Personally I was hoping for some of the creepy stuff that popped up in the early concept art years ago, chilling stuff.

But this is what they wanted and I'm happy with that.

Kolya on 10/9/2007 at 01:38

But there are people like WB Diego and Bronson who decide against the Many. How does that fit with them being passive victims? Malick and Norris sold their humanity for promises of power. And they are even more interesting as they show exactly that there was a decision to be made.
I wouldn't compare this to the holocaust or slaves. Mostly because it's just a scifi game. But it shows moral decisions imo.

Volitions Advocate on 10/9/2007 at 01:44

fair enough

Angel Dust on 10/9/2007 at 14:27

Quote Posted by Volitions Advocate

But the people in system shock were forced into what happened to them. in bioshock they werent, they chose to splice themselves.

The people of Rapture were pretty much forced into splicing themselves too. I'm sure cosmetic splicing etc was happening but the real crazy stuff only happened because
[spoiler]
Fontaine used his 'Houses for the Poor' to build a splicer army (I'm guessing that it was not voluntary on the part of the poor). The citizens of Rapture armed and spliced themselves for protection.
[/spoiler]

blaydes99 on 11/9/2007 at 22:30

Quote Posted by Assidragon

And the ending DOES suck in SS2.

Well, maybe the first part of the SS2 ending isn't very good, but the last part, with Tommy and Rebecca in the shuttle was pretty sweet.

catbarf on 12/9/2007 at 20:02

Quote Posted by blaydes99

It is MY opinion that you don't even contribute a .00001% worth of a flaming doo-doo bag to this topic, much less anyone in this community in general.

Until you've released a game that is awesome as SS2/Bioshock, no one at all even has any reason to even read your opinions.

Because as we all know, a sports commentator is a superior player to all the players on the field. And a movie critic is a better writer, director, producer and special effects technician than all the people who worked on the movie. Please.

The thing is, Bioshock isn't LIKE SS2, it IS SS2. It's SS2 without the deep RPG aspect- but the plot is more or less the same. As Zeropunctuation put it, 'The main enemy might as well be SHODAN in a waistcoat with a copy of Atlas Shrugged. The psionics are now plasmids, the hybrids are now splicers, and the wrench is... well, it's a wrench, but it's a different kind of wrench.