Bible, a source of ethical values? (Warning, religious thoughts!) - by Gorgonseye
Thief13x on 26/1/2008 at 22:05
there are a bunch of morons out there who say the bible is outdated have and who have hardly ever read it for themselves, if at all. Outdated? maybe some of the language...but the principles (though they may be correct or incorrect) are very practical
fett on 26/1/2008 at 22:15
Yep, pretty outdated. I think we should take any book that was written before 1997 and burn it. I mean, what could people living that long ago really know that would be relevant today? Could they even write back then? I thought they just spoke in grunts. Either way, I say burn any book that I don't understand or don't have time to read. Especially the ones written in other languages. Anyone with good sense knows that any book worth reading is written in English.
Briareos H on 26/1/2008 at 22:19
consider it, take counsel and speak up !
jimjack on 26/1/2008 at 22:27
I haven't read it but I do know that parts are outdated inspite of some inspirational principals in it. I did get something out of going to a catholic school..same ideas.
There's so much intolerance.
Attituudes toward women.
Homosexuality being seen as a sin and not as something you're born into.
Sacrificing sons.
Literally hundreds of things that are forbidden.
eating meat, wine to water
Laying with daughters.
Read some of the words they throw in. Abominations, banishment, beggardly, unclean,
The bible can be a pretty dangerouse read if taken too literally. Its not preaching love but more like intimidation. It brings back primary catholic school where touching yourself is misdemeanor number one.
The world's moved on from all that.
SubJeff on 26/1/2008 at 22:33
Quote Posted by Thief13x
but the principles (though they may be correct or incorrect) are very practical
Hmmm. Not sure I agree with this. Some of the stuff in there is related to circumstance at the time and may not be applicable to today. Some food laws in the Old Testament, for example, are probably based on food hygiene sans fridges. Certainly many thing that have a medical basis, and even the 10 Commandments - if everyone kept the sabbath holy, or at least an appreciable number, emergency services would be understaffed, and the commandment about murder - how does that apply to current end of life decisions with people in ICU? I think there is an issue with technology and society moving on, and that would apply to rules outside the Big 10 as well.
jtr7 on 26/1/2008 at 22:43
Quote:
...
Homosexuality being seen as a sin and not as something you're born into.
Sacrificing sons.
...
Laying with daughters.
Clarify?
fett on 26/1/2008 at 23:03
Quote Posted by jimjack
I haven't read it but I do know that parts are outdated inspite of some inspirational principals in it. I did get something out of going to a catholic school..same ideas.
There's so much intolerance.
Attituudes toward women.
Yet considered too liberal and revolutionary i
n their day.
Quote:
Homosexuality being seen as a sin and not as something you're born into.
I won't theorize on the notion of sin, but IIRC the jury is still out on the 'gay' gene. Doesn't make it right or wrong, but we still don't know if it's genetic.
Huh? Where? OT Judaism is on record the only semitic religion of the time that expressly forbade human sacrifice.
Quote:
Literally hundreds of things that are forbidden.
eating meat, wine to water
Forbidden to whom? To you? Or to the Levitic preisthood who because of their work had to remain both physical and ceremonially clean for health reasons (the meat that was sacrificed was divided and eaten by the entire community)?
Quote:
Laying with daughters.
Pretty sure this is still forbidden by law, and rightly so. Do you need to tell us something?
Quote:
Read some of the words they throw in. Abominations, banishment, beggardly,
Beggardly? Seriously? What are the context of these words?
Quote:
The bible can be a pretty dangerouse read if taken too literally. Its not preaching love but more like intimidation. It brings back primary catholic school where touching yourself is misdemeanor number one.
The world's moved on from all that.
I don't remember the part of the bible where it claimed to preach anything, and it most certainly never proclaims itself as a book of love. You are also aware I'm sure that the bible nowhere prohibits masturbation. And that primary catholic school came
after the bible?
That you haven't read it is obvious. That it is a dangerous book is true only to the extent that people make ridiculous assumptions about it like you, and most christians, seem to enjoy doing.
And before anyone asks, yeah, I'm pretty fucking sick and tired of listening to myself on this subject too. It's the idiocy that drives me.
jimjack on 26/1/2008 at 23:16
Levi 18,28 "You shalll not lie with a male as one lies with a female, it is an abomination"
"detestable act" "They shall surely be put to their death"
Corinthians "fornicators, nor idultareres, nor effiminate, nor homesexuals, nor covetors shall inherit the kingdom of god.." we are all doomed pretty much.
It's pretty clear that it is not tolerated in the bible, whether you're born that way or choose it.
Adam and Eve's children
Noah and his wives kids : to populate the earth. It seems it was pretty permissable according to the bible.
Laying with daughters ..Lot and his daughters? Was he even condemned for that?
Sacrificing sons:
Abraham was ready to do it. And it looks like it was an expected thing from the Israelites to sacrifice their first born sons under some word of Moses.
I'd get an f for this because I haven't really cracked open the bible and read in great detail or found half of what is there. I even dusted off some old bible I found here at home. I just didn't add all the titles ie (genesis 101) but its all there and like I say..outdated and brutal.
the bible is a load of rubbish if you take in all that and admire it.
**I've got it! I'm going to forgoe all my magazines hidden under my bed and I'm going to challenge myself by reading the bible. Then I'll have something to really support myself in any future threads re: religion, bibles and fornications and other heinous acts.
jtr7 on 26/1/2008 at 23:52
Yeah, you get an F. You fail to know the passages you refer to. You hear twisted bits and pieces and assume to know the whole story. I was really hoping this wasn't another Fox News versus EA type bias.
Lot didn't lay with his daughters. He got drunk a couple of times--after losing his wife, his home, his favorite city, and was out in the wilderness. His daughters conspired and each had sex with him without him knowing it ever happened. The consequences being that their offspring became enemies of Israel. So yeah, there has been punishment upon punishment for millennia.
Abraham was ready to sacrifice THE son that God PROMISED would have descendants outnumbering the grains of sand, and after his wife's infertility was miraculously reversed. You don't think he didn't believe God would make it up to him?
Biblically-speaking, we are all born cursed to be sinful. We all are infected. In that vein, being born homosexual is just one of a billion manifestations of innate sinful nature. Biblically-speaking. God's relationship with humanity is symbolized--like what, Fett?--thousands of times by the relationship of a married man and wife. It's such a strong theme. Idolatry is symbolic of a spouse committing adultery. It's very consistent. Don't mess with the institution of marriage. Biblically-speaking.
Noah's kids had spouses, too. God knows everything about genetics, while we're only scratching the surface and making a bloody mess. It makes more sense to have THE genetic engineer decide who, how, and when then any scientist can ever show an aptitude for. God knows when and why something will go wrong, and can conceive of the best path to achieve His goals. Maybe sometime in the far future, people will have figured out how to crack the Master Programmer's Code.:p Biblically-speaking.
Yeah, misunderstanding, misquoting, gutting, stripping away all historical and cultural context, and approaching the material with extreme bias will lead to anyone making the Bible, or the substance of any medium, sound like a load of rubbish to anyone who agrees to practice ignorance. If you know you don't know, leave it at that. Don't Cooper up the facts.
jimjack on 26/1/2008 at 23:59
My own teacher couldn't have ripped me apart worse than this. You have ruined my weekend:mad:
I might not know what others might know, but I know that I don't know. But it still won't stop me from asking the big questions.
