SD on 3/8/2009 at 10:54
Quote Posted by Andarthiel
Not to flame or anything but also the fact that lots of terrible things have been done in the name of religion(wars, witch hunts,genocide etc.) is another thing that contributed to my dislike of it.
Quote Posted by the_grip
I personally don't lay this at the feet of organized religions. I think most of this kind of shit had much to do with things apart from religion, and religion just was the vehicle that could be used.
While there is undoubtedly
some truth in that, given the reams of religious text devoted to how anyone thinking or behaving differently to you should be put to death, whereupon they face a lifetime of torture by Satan (or equivalent) and his minions, you're letting it off the hook far too readily.
Yeah it's a vehicle, but it's a vehicle with the engine running, the door unlocked and a set of hand grenades in the glove compartment.
Beleg Cúthalion on 3/8/2009 at 11:04
Then any institution or idea which unites people would be dangerous. Go on and try to abolish national identities, democracy and human rights. :p
Chimpy Chompy on 3/8/2009 at 11:29
I'm inclined to think that anything outside the physical universe is unknowable and ill-defined. Maybe there's a god if you like... or maybe something so far beyond our understanding that the term "god" carries too many implications of something personal and anthropomorphic.
I just shrug and move on, I don't yet see a useful way to incorporate such ideas into my worldview. But if people want their faith for cultural reasons then i'm not going all spiders and hate on them. As long as they don't tread on everyone else's toes.
SD on 3/8/2009 at 11:51
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Then any institution or idea which unites people would be dangerous. Go on and try to abolish national identities, democracy and human rights.
That's some non sequitur right there. It's not people being united around a common cause or idea that's problematic - it's the cause or idea itself.
Hence I still have a problem with the bits in Christianity which say that gay people should be killed or that I am headed straight for eternal misery, even if many Christians might not believe that. If you don't believe in those things, why would one subscribe to a text that espouses to such things in the first place? You might not believe those things, but merely by dint of being a Christian and following the Bible, you would give sustenance to those that do. I mean, I am sure there are some members of the BNP or National Front who aren't racists, but merely by belonging to such an organisation, they support and reinforce those who
are racists.
No organised theistic religion is free from hateful shit, hence anyone belonging to one, even if they don't agree with the hateful shit, is an enabler for those that do.
Belief in a god or gods, without the attendant religion, isn't anywhere near as big a problem for me, although it's such a meritless proposition in itself that one is certainly moved to question the mental state of the believer.
Vivian on 3/8/2009 at 12:17
Quote Posted by Harvester
Far too many people (mostly Christians) have told me about their religious experiences and miracles happening to them and I've read or otherwise heard about many, many more. Should I believe they're all lying or deluding themselves? I know some of these people far too well to assume that. In the Netherlands, anyone can visit church services led by a man called Jan Zijlstra where they can see people getting healed from all kinds of diseases and afflictions (some people aren't healed though), my father went to one, sometimes you can see people get up from wheelchairs. Of course a lot of religious impostors are also faking such things, but it happens too often for me to believe that they're all fake.
Of course, you can just wish away major motor malfunctions. Empirical proof or GTFO you quack-enabler.
Vasquez on 3/8/2009 at 12:39
Quote Posted by SD
If you don't believe in those things, why would one subscribe to a text that espouses to such things in the first place?
This is what I wonder. I have my own way to be spiritual (of sorts) and I've been called a "pick-and-mixer" for that. I don't mind, because for me spirituality always
should be a personal choice, something that you can accept and that fits without conflict into your inner feeling of truth. I don't see what's so righteous and good to call oneself a Mormon, Jew, Catholic, Buddhist, Lutheran, Hindu, Muslim, whatever and feel pompous about it, and yet skip all the fundamental bits of dogma that don't suit your lifestyle.
AR Master on 3/8/2009 at 13:54
who got butthurt and made tags about me
whatever happened to ar asster
edit: WHO WOULDN'T DO ME >: (
Queue on 3/8/2009 at 14:46
Quote Posted by TheivingME
I believe I'm god...prove me wrong.
I believe you're God, and would like to start a religion in your name.
...so I can bilk as many rubes as possible out of their hard earned cash, then eventually blame AR Master for making me do it.
Herr_Garrett on 3/8/2009 at 18:15
St Anselm, Onthological argument, A priori proof to God's existence, does it ring a bell?
I'm by no means religious, but I know there's a God. Not that it affects my life in any way at all.
Matthew on 3/8/2009 at 18:33
Of course, when you have names like Thomas Aquinas, Kant, Hume et al lining up to dispute the argument things get a bit more muddled ...
