fett on 4/8/2009 at 21:54
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
Oh, I don't doubt it's internally consistent. It's just when you start comparing it to the outside world that it starts looking a bit funky.
THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THISTHIS is exactly why so many seemingly intelligent people believe it. The Bible is a fascinating piece of literature, meticulously engineered. It's
internal consistency is staggering, so much so that I was convinced for 20 years that it was true. But holding to it 100% requires a subtle type of myopia which requires you to see things only through a subjective, experiential lens. Life must be interpreted according to a specific theological framework. Once you objectively apply the theology to real life, it comes apart like a Guns N' Roses lineup.
Stitch on 4/8/2009 at 22:01
Quote Posted by fett
Once you objectively apply the theology to real life, it comes apart like a Guns N' Roses lineup.
:(
Harvester on 4/8/2009 at 23:24
Quote Posted by Vivian
Of course, you can just wish away major motor malfunctions. Empirical proof or GTFO you quack-enabler.
Yeah, well, I can't give you empirical proof, sorry, I wish I could. I wasn't trying to convince anyone with those statements, I was simply stating my beliefs, that's what this thread is about after all. I wouldn't believe such thing as faith healers either if I wasn't already a Christian, so I can hardly blame you.
However, since I
am a Christian, it's easier for me to believe that God has the ability to heal people than it is for me to believe that the countless people claiming to have been healed by these healers are
all lying.
Catbarf, as for your question on people getting healed and such in other religions, I'm not sure what to make of that. I've heard those miracles in other religions being described by other Christians as the work of satan, but I'm not sure I buy that explanation. I'm not really a strong supporter of the whole 'only Christians can go to heaven, everyone else goes to hell no matter how good of a life they lived' line of reasoning anyway. It says in the Bible that Jesus is the only way to God, but the way I see it, someone who lived a selfless life and has done his best to serve others is also a follower of Jesus (regardless of whether he actually believed in Him or not).
Harvester on 4/8/2009 at 23:46
Quote Posted by fett
People have
told you. You have
heard about. Have you ever experienced these things for yourself?
Actually, after an evening of heavy prayer because I was dealing with serious issues, I have had a biblical verse appear to me in a dream once, a verse pertaining to what I was dealing with (no details, that's too personal for me to share). You might say that that was just my own mind remembering a bible verse I already knew about, but it was actually a verse I didn't even know existed.
Admittedly that's the only religious experience I've personally had, apart from some heavy emotions during church services, but as you say those can also be caused simply by rousing words and music.
Quote:
Again - this stuff makes for good stories, but have you ever experienced it yourself? If their word that it happened is good enough, why don't you believe in UFOs, talking animals, or the Loch Ness Monster? Lots of people have seen them. Are they all lying?
I have read multiple long 'post your supernatural experiences' threads on forums. I've
never read any 'post your Loch Ness/UFO/talking animals experiences' threads, let alone any that were that long. I'm sure they exist on specialized Loch Ness/UFO forums, but the difference between the amount of people that have reported supernatural experiences and the amount of people who have reported Loch Ness and talking animals experiences is quite large.
And BTW, I'm not sure I believe in UFOs but I also don't
not believe in them, I think it's definitely possible that there's extraterrestrial life out there and that they might be visiting us.
Turtle on 5/8/2009 at 00:31
Quote Posted by Harvester
but it was actually a verse I didn't even know existed.
Oh, so you're one of those "Christians" who has never even read the Bible?
uncadonego on 5/8/2009 at 02:34
Quote Posted by fett
The Bible is a fascinating piece of literature, meticulously engineered. It's
internal consistency is staggering, so much so that I was convinced for 20 years that it was true.
Much more staggering to consider it was written by 40 different men, most of whom never met one another, in three different languages and across a span of 1600 years to make one book.
Just a personal opinion, but I'm not going flame fett or anyone else simply because they don't agree with me. If someone allows others to live freely without breaking laws of society to the detriment of others, why should I hold it against them simply because they question the existence of God? How often has anyone ever been attacked by an atheist
because of their atheism? I'll propose never. How many people have been attacked because of someone using their
faith as an excuse for hatred? A LOT. I've never had a problem with an atheist because of their atheism, yet I've heard people of different faiths spew verbal hatred towards others a lot. Getting rid of religion wouldn't change the haters though, they'll just find a new way to hate, with new excuses for bad behaviour.
The principles: "you must do to others as you would have them do to you" and "you must love your neighbour as YOURSELF" can be applied in life regardless of belief or lack of it, to the benefit of everyone.
june gloom on 5/8/2009 at 02:56
And then there are some of the atheists I know.
To wit: "IF YOU'RE NOT AN ATHEIST, FUCK YOU"
"I am an agnostic [or apatheist or even atheist, it doesn't really matter with these people] so why don't you stop being a dickb-"
"YOU'RE NOT ATHEIST ENOUGH, FUCK YOU"
Queue on 5/8/2009 at 02:57
Quote Posted by Turtle
Oh, so you're one of those "Christians" who has never even read the Bible?
So the majority? Seriously, I find it somewhat disheartening the number of atheists I personally know who have read the Bible cover to cover, as opposed to my friends in the flock who chose to get their information from the minister's interpretation.
Yet, for that part, who really reads anything carefully anyway. People are prone to skimming and "filling in between the lines" or "making their own assumptions" instead of going with what's really on the page. Example: I knew a Pentecostal who was convinced that John the Baptist and John of Patmos were the same person. Why? Because there's only one John in the Bible, and she knew this because she decided she'd read the Bible one night since she never had.
crunchy on 5/8/2009 at 03:09
Two men think they are Jesus
One of them must be wrong
- Mark Knopfler
Queue on 5/8/2009 at 03:12
Or they own the place
...no, sorry, that was two Jews walk into a bar.
BTW--I'd seriously love to hear/read a Jewish perspective (as I find I still have respect for those of the Jewish faith) instead of Christianity-this and Christianity-that.
