Being immigrated in France what can happen to me if Marine Le Pen wins the elections - by Cardia
faetal on 24/4/2017 at 16:17
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
You wouldn't be surprised if you actually understood
the Muslim culture rather than just making
the incredibly racist assumption that all immigrants are exactly the same.....not that anyone who isn't from there truly does, but I like to think that living there gave me a leg up in that regard.
Have a word with yourself Tony - which Muslim culture for starters. Also, this bizarre delusion you have that you somehow have singular familiarity with Other Cultures gets more bizarre every time you repeat it.
Pyrian on 24/4/2017 at 16:42
Quote Posted by raph
...abandoning all pretense of being left.
Oh, cut that nonsense out. It's a runoff. Picking the "lesser evil" isn't abandoning principles, it's upholding them.
Cardia on 24/4/2017 at 17:03
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
You wouldn't be surprised if you actually understood the Muslim culture rather than just making the incredibly racist assumption that all immigrants are exactly the same.....not that anyone who isn't from there truly does, but I like to think that living there gave me a leg up in that regard.
errr... i wasn´t talking about Muslim, i was talking about people that have origin in my country. I´m Portuguese and i´m not racist, i´ve seen videos where some Portuguese immigrants simply don't want immigrants in France, not my case, as far as i´m concearned we should have the frontiers open, ok, ?
And Portugal is not a Muslim country, its mainly a Catholic European country next to Spain, ok? Damm how is it possible many people don't know Portugal, or where it is located?.
skacky on 24/4/2017 at 17:53
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Oh, cut that nonsense out. It's a runoff. Picking the "lesser evil" isn't abandoning principles, it's upholding them.
How is choosing a candidate you hate to eliminate another "upholding" principles? I'm a traditional Leftist and there is no way in hell I'm voting for either Macron or Le Pen, lesser evil or not. They do not represent my values in the slightest, both in terms of economics and overall politics. I despise Macron's economic program and Le Pen's will never work. They're both terrible candidates and terrible potential presidents in my eyes. People who say they're Leftists and vote for Macron are lying to themselves, especially with this ultra-liberal Right wing economic program of his.
rachel on 24/4/2017 at 19:20
Quote Posted by Pyrian
Oh, cut that nonsense out. It's a runoff. Picking the "lesser evil" isn't abandoning principles, it's upholding them.
Pay attention, kid. I was absolutely not talking about calling to vote against Le Pen. If you follow the history of the Socialist party, their progression towards the right can be traced back to the mid-eghties, but the last five years have made it pretty clear that they are the Socialist Party in name only. Hollande five years ago: "My enemy is Big Finance". Five years on, not only did he do nothing of the sort, he engaged in policies that made bankers and financiers wealthier. His big stand against the ECB and Merkel never happened. He used the 49.3 amendment of the Constitution to pass laws against the will of the people and his own party in the Parliament that destroy traditional workers protections and make executives and shareholders more powerful and of course richer in the process.
Hollande's only participation in the campaign, after swearing he would abstain from making any comment before the 1st round to preserve the dignity of the office, was to denounce the heinous behaviour of one of the candidates. Was it Le Pen, who shamelessly denied that France took part in deporting thousands of Jews during World War 2, a crime that can get you 1 year in prison and a 35k fine? No of course not, because who gives a shit? It was Mélenchon's unexpected and viral rise in the polls that had to be stopped at any cost, bringing up an obscure part of his programme and painting it as if the Red Army would invade Paris on the 8th of May, nevermind that the USSR has been dead and buried for twenty years. He called his campaign "foul smelling" and "dangerous", strongly hinted that he was supporting Macron and not his own party's candidate Hamon, and said absolutely nothing about Le Pen, her ilk, and their program or declarations.
There was one viable candidate that threatened the establishment, and it's not Le Pen. The Front National have been the useful idiots of the 5th Republic since Mitterand back in the late 70's, easy to bring up and scare the masses into keeping up the "classic" left/right status quo. The real change, the one they were afraid of, came for what's left of the "real" left, a group that was pretty much left for dead and neglected, it was the creation of a new constitution and the renegotiation of treaties, and both things were a mortal threat to their privileges and comfortable way of life.
Well they won this time. But you can be godamn sure they're gonna have to fight for the Legislatives and beyond, while the direct threat may be gone, they won't get rid of us that easily.
Cardia on 24/4/2017 at 19:27
Benoit Hamon seems to have a good program, PS in France has less power while in Portugal PS is most of the times the leading political party.
rachel on 24/4/2017 at 19:37
To be honest his program was indeed probably good enough, certainly not as radical as JLM but with good stuff and a strong push for environmental protection, for which he was backed by the Greens. He would have been my second choice, he just never had a chance to win, first because a lot of Party executives "betrayed" and joined Macron, and then because he antagonized the rest who were still loyal, and ran a very poor campaign as a result. He also had the terrible disadvantage of being the PS candidate, what with it being the party of a despised President who has the lowest approval ratings in history (we're talking low, here, like about 4% or something...)
Pyrian on 24/4/2017 at 19:59
Quote Posted by raph
Pay attention, kid. I was absolutely not talking about calling to vote against Le Pen.
I'm sorry, I read more into your post than was there, then. I'm still sore about Bernie "supporters" ignoring Sanders himself to (in part) hand our presidency to Trump (AKA "or Bust"). (One of the fun things about such a close result is that virtually
anything that measurably swayed the vote towards Trump can
also be said to have effectively put him in office.)
Meanwhile, I see someone else snatched up the purity banner before it even hit the ground...
Quote Posted by skacky
How is choosing a candidate you hate to eliminate another "upholding" principles?
Because it generates a result less out of line with those principles, while failing to do so does the opposite - by inaction, policy moves further from your principles than it would if you had. Any remotely democratic form of government absolutely requires compromise; arguably, that's kind of the point. Yeah, it sucks sometimes. But it can suck a lot worse.
jkcerda on 24/4/2017 at 20:08
Sanders said.
(
http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-told-supporters-hed-never-tell-them-how-to-vote/)
Quote:
I think if we end up losing — and I hope we do not — and if Secretary Clinton wins, it is incumbent upon her to tell millions of people who right now do not believe in establishment politics or establishment economics, who have serious misgivings about a candidate who has received millions of dollars from Wall Street and other special interests.
She has got to go out to you and to millions of other people and say, yes, I think the United States should join the rest of the industrialized world and take on the private insurance companies and the greed of the drug companies and pass a Medicare for all.
I think that says Secretary Clinton, that for the young people in this country, you should not have to leave college $30,000, $50,000, $70,000 in debt because we're going to make as many other countries around the world do, public colleges and universities tuition-free. I think Secretary Clinton is going to have to explain to millions of young people and a lot of other people that climate change is a real crisis and incrementalism is just not going to solve it ... she is going to have to come on board and say, yes, I know it's hard, but I am going to take on the fossil fuel industry and pass a carbon tax.
So the — the point that I am making is, it is incumbent upon Secretary Clinton to reach out not only to my supporters, but to all of the American people, with an agenda that they believe will represent the interests of working families, lower income people, the middle class, those of us who are concerned about the environment and not just big money interests.
Sanders had my vote till he turned and endorsed/supported the very thing he was supposed to be against.
rachel on 24/4/2017 at 20:08
And sorry about the "kid" part, Pyrian, that was condescending. Reading the fallout today has been a bit of a roller coaster...
