Being immigrated in France what can happen to me if Marine Le Pen wins the elections - by Cardia
Harvester on 25/4/2017 at 13:46
I feel Dutch liberals have lost touch with the classic liberalism ideology as well. Mark Rutte, our prime minister, is pretty much the opposite of someone driven by ideological ideals. His party mainly espouses people being asked to fend for themselves, with neither many obstacles nor fallbacks. If you can make it, great. If you can't, get lost, we don't care that you have to live in poverty. The social liberal party, D66 (comparable to the Lib Dems in the UK) at least supports measures to help those who can't make it, while still striving for as much personal freedom as possible.
Edit: as environmental policies are concerned, according to the VVD, nothing can stand in the way of the ability for individuals and companies to do whatever the hell they want. Environmentally friendly things happen only when they're profitable.
heywood on 25/4/2017 at 15:05
Quote Posted by Harvester
I don't know much about these candidates. But I do wonder about the "harsher on labour" aspect you mentioned. Feel free to tell my uninformed ass if I'm spouting nonsense. But in the state France's economy is in, is Mélenchon's plan of a 32 hour workweek smart or not? And I often wonder about the unions' vast power in France. Often I hear about yet another strike, and the call for an even lower pension age and a shorter workweek, and my first thought (admittedly based on little knowledge) is "you're grinding your own country to a halt and your economy will never improve in this way". On the other hand, if everyone works fewer hours in a week with the same amount of work needing to be done, more people can be employed. As I said, I can't claim to have studied this in depth and am happy to be corrected and informed.
Of course a 32 hour work week is not a smart plan. Neither is Hamon's proposal to tax automation. Making policies that intentionally reduce the productivity of your workforce is economic suicide. A drop in productivity will drive jobs out of the country, making the unemployment problem worse, not better.
It's not as simple as having more people working fewer hours each, with the sum total of hours remaining the same, because the cost of labor doesn't fall in proportion with the length of the work week.
Now if you could get the whole world to go along with a 32 hour work week, or at least the whole 1st world, then it would be an interesting idea. But making these kinds of policy changes unilaterally is self-defeating.
Harvester on 25/4/2017 at 15:16
It didn't appear smart to me either. But I didn't phrase my opinion with too much confidence, because I'm pretty much a layman when it comes to these issues and French politics.
skacky on 25/4/2017 at 15:16
Quote Posted by Harvester
I don't know much about these candidates. But I do wonder about the "harsher on labour" aspect you mentioned. Feel free to tell my uninformed ass if I'm spouting nonsense. But in the state France's economy is in, is Mélenchon's plan of a 32 hour workweek smart or not? And I often wonder about the unions' vast power in France. Often I hear about yet another strike, and the call for an even lower pension age and a shorter workweek, and my first thought (admittedly based on little knowledge) is "you're grinding your own country to a halt and your economy will never improve in this way". On the other hand, if everyone works fewer hours in a week with the same amount of work needing to be done, more people can be employed. As I said, I can't claim to have studied this in depth and am happy to be corrected and informed.
The 32 hours per week was an idea, but not a concrete proposition of his. He wanted to have the regular 35 hours like they were when they were adopted. Mélenchon's goal was to kick the country in the butt, for lack of a better expression, by making labour more attractive to average Joes and having a way more stern stance towards firms and corporations than the others, firms and corporations that have received millions to hire people — with no actual obligation of hiring people, if you can believe it, that the current government graciously gave them on a silver platter during these years. Some of these don't even pay taxes. The current government was more flexible and more generous with these people than the previous one under Sarkozy, which was as Right wing as they come. The strikes are usually blown out of proportions, there aren't that many and most of them are easily appeased and don't last long.
Quote Posted by Harvester
EDIT: maybe there are also a lot of strikes going on for valid reasons in France. But one strike I remember is the Air France one, where the pilots were on strike because they wanted to move more KLM/Air France (partner companies) flights from Schiphol to Charles de Gaulle airport. Is that really a valid reason to strike? Those are the kind of strikes where my first thought is the aforementioned one.
No, that's not a valid reason to strike and pretty much everyone was disgusted the pilots went on strike. These people are what we call "les nantis" in France, basically very wealthy people who think they don't have enough privileges/money somehow and abuse the system to the detriment of other smaller workers. There were several strikes in Air France these past few years and the only one that had any noticeable effect on the government was the pilots'.
Quote Posted by SD
The only thing worse than liberals is those ULTRA LIBERALS, am I rite? :mad:
Freedom is bad enough, but ultra freedom?!
<serious>Some people deserve to be ruled by Nazis</serious>
It would be wise to know what I'm talking about before you try to be witty. If you had read my posts you would've known I'm using liberal with its European definition, unless you believe unruly Capitalism, profit at the expense of ecology and power belonging to a few aristocrats who don't care if the plebs die en masse tomorrow are freedom.
jkcerda on 25/4/2017 at 15:39
Quote Posted by montag
1.Wow, really? Thanks for your input,
2. who did you vote for?
3.Did you support your own country, or did you run away?
1 you are welcomed
2. gary J. after Sanders sold out.
3. I have a DD214. is that what you meant?
jkcerda on 25/4/2017 at 15:40
Quote Posted by Renzatic
GREAT! NOW I'M DEPRESSED! I'M GONNA GET DRUNK AND PLAY SOME VIDEOGAMES!
1.FUCK ALL YALL! :mad:
2....and yes, I realize that, as a moderator, I should probably do my duty, and move all of JK's stuff into the Trump Dump where it's more topically appropriate. But I'm gonna get drunk. Can't do it right now.
1. $20, no one rides for free.
2. again, apologies...... still love you, I'll stick to cheeto hitlers thread.
SD on 25/4/2017 at 15:44
Quote Posted by skacky
It would be wise to know what I'm talking about before you try to be witty. If you had read my posts you would've known I'm using liberal with its European definition, unless you believe unruly Capitalism, profit at the expense of ecology and power belonging to a few aristocrats who don't care if the plebs die en masse tomorrow are freedom.
I am also using liberal with its European definition.
I'm not one of these strange pseudoliberals who believes a person should be free to do whatever they want with their own bodies, but not with their own money.
Market-oriented reforms in France are long, long overdue.
Indeed, perhaps if British taxes hadn't been used to prop up failing French farmers for the past few decades, Britain might still be in the European Union. Just a thought.
Harvester on 25/4/2017 at 16:55
Thanks for the clarification, skacky. The Dutch news doesn't tell me everything. For example, the 32 hour workweek was described as an actual proposition of Mélenchon. And I've seen Mélenchon framed as an 'extreme left' candidate on some Dutch news website.
Good to hear the pilots' strike was seen as an unreasonable outlier in France as well.
Cardia on 25/4/2017 at 18:30
I am in favor for a Federal Europe, united we're stronger and happier.
Renzatic on 25/4/2017 at 19:16
Quote Posted by SD
Indeed, perhaps if British taxes hadn't been used to prop up failing French farmers for the past few decades, Britain might still be in the European Union. Just a thought.
Well, officially you all still are, and may yet still be, depending on who does what when and why.
