Thirith on 23/3/2009 at 10:16
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
It was established in Season fucking One that the actual existence of a divine higher power is an integral part of the BSG universe.
For the slow, I'm directly referring to Baltar's "spectral" Six, etc.
Which, based on the evidence in the series, could have been any number of things - there was never a clear-cut "Yes, God and angels exist" until the very end. Although the cumulative weight of evidence (mostly the extreme coincidences and inexplicable events) did point towards a higher being of considerable power - but until the end they could also have been explained by some super-tech "god". (As a matter of fact, even with the final episode as it is, the identity of God is up for grabs. It may just as well be Sambrid become one with the universe as Yahwe.)
Chimpy Chompy on 23/3/2009 at 10:23
While Moore has produced his fair share of ass-pulls, I would agree the possibility of some sort of higher power has been a part of the story all along. Even if we were red-herringed with suggestion of Spectral Six being a chip in Baltar's head.
Also I just thought of something; is Deanna still sat by herself on the irradiated Former Earth? Anyone planning on telling her they found a better one?
Thirith on 23/3/2009 at 10:38
Nobody really liked her that much anyway.
ZylonBane on 23/3/2009 at 14:59
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
It was established in Season fucking One that the actual existence of a divine higher power is an integral part of the BSG universe.
For the slow, I'm directly referring to Baltar's "spectral" Six, etc.
No, it was established that superstitious people in the BSG universe *believe* in a higher power. As already noted, Baltar spent quite a while convinced that there was some kind of chip in his head. And then they established that all Cylons have the ability to "project" whatever visions they feel like, once again leading Baltar to suspect that he had a little Cylon in him. And the rest of the time he was figured he'd gone insane with guilt. So there was a constant insinuation that Head Six had a non-sky-wizard explanation.
There are times in fiction when it's appropriate to leave something an eternal mystery, but it's NOT when characters have wrapped themselves around solving that mystery. That sort of writing builds up in the audience a reasonable expectation that the mystery will eventually be explained, and when the writer flat-out refuses to do so, that's terrible writing, and it pisses people off.
Also, I'm sure Mr. Moore hopes we'll all forget that "Angel Six" was originally little more than a masturbation buddy for Baltar.
Hollow Man on 23/3/2009 at 15:13
There was a lot about the show I quite liked, especially all the work the actors put into it, and a few twists in story development here and there which were fascinating. But I do agree with ZylonBane that this ending smacked of lazy writing. Having Baltar and Starbuck wonder endlessly about their respective mysteries, then using religion and faith as answers, really seems like a cop-out.
And of course the way the Cylons got blown up by accident is on par with the Phantom Menace, and Anakin destroying the Trade Federation with a "What does this button do?" gesture. Convenient and tidy, but not very plausible.
Never mind the fact that we have a people who are always poor, starving, distrustful of the government and the military, and they happily give up all their technology, even though the centurions are now roaming around free? These are people who steadfastly REFUSE to have anything to do with the Cylons. Now they finally listen when they're told the Cylons won't bother them?
Sorry if any of this was already mentioned, but I'd like to think if they gave themselves more time they could've come up with better ways to get them to where they obviously wanted to be at the end of this show.
Rug Burn Junky on 23/3/2009 at 16:08
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
He'd pretty much given Nicky over entirely to Hot Dog's care by that point, and I think he just wanted to divorce himself completely from his old life. And who could blame him, with the shit he'd been through.
Really? I mean, my last memory of Nicky was him telling Hot Dog ~"First lesson of being a father is that you never leave your kid's side when they're sick. We take shifts, I'll be back when I sober up." That sounded to me that he was still pretty emotionally invested in the kid. And if he were that torn up about Cally's death, that's just another layer of emotional investment that would leave him feeling a bit protective. I just can't imagine him being that selfish and walking away, given his nature through-out the series. Not that big of a deal, but could have been resolved with a half sentence extra when he said good-bye.
Quote:
And there are more than enough Eights other than Athena to go found Asia.
Yeah, I was just being facetious. I'm sure there were plenty of Sharon's busily learning how to play Starcraft as soon as that last raptor dropped them off.
ignatios on 23/3/2009 at 17:04
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
I'm sure there were plenty of Sharon's
I have to say I largely side with ZB on the show as a whole, though I didn't realise it until after the third season.
The show was so good and fresh because it was a military drama in space rather than a
sci-fi show (in the pejorative sense). It was tense, uncertain, and tough as nails.
When it stopped being humanity trying to survive in space and started being about two wayward space-bound civilizations trying to find out who shot J.R., it lost what had made it so tight and rewarding in the first place. The desperation and honesty were what had made the show worth the emotional investment for me in the first place, not the plot puzzles (which eventually collapsed in on themselves) and contrived philosophy.
JediKorenchkin on 23/3/2009 at 17:30
Worst. Series Finale. Ever.
Also possibly one of the worst episodes this show has ever done.
Rug Burn Junky on 23/3/2009 at 17:46
You're just quoting that to keep evidence of my typo. Bastard. I was typing fast. ;)
When you say after the third season, THAT was when you lost it for the show? The third season is some of the most compelling TV going. You have a relatively mainstream TV show that sets up a scenerio where the audience is actively rooting for the terrorist acts of an occupied civilian population against their overlords in the same political climate that gives us "the Surge." It got you rooting for Al-Qaeda and Hamas. That's pretty hard to do.
The first two seasons were more than just military/sci-fi, the show was an allegory about the War on Terror™ from the very beginning. The fear in the beginning was simply about "others living amongst us" - "How do we know who the enemy is, if we can't identify them?" Over time, that morphed into "Just because we've identified them, are they really the enemy?" That's what the 4th season was about, it's the necessary endgame to the events set up from the very beginning. It wasn't about the answer to, as you put it, "Who Shot JR?", that was simply a macguffin, a framework for the questions that were being asked: Do we engage with moderates who are ostensibly among the enemies, or do we give in to the knee-jerk fear reaction that leads to things like the coup? Just how far do you go cutting off your nose to spite your face, when there's demonstrable evidence that it's counterproductive? Even if you have the best intentions, are there elements on both sides that won't allow peace to happen?
These aren't exactly subversive or maybe even original thoughts, but it's still remarkable that these sorts of things were able to bubble just under the surface without overwhelming the show. The subtle questioning of the political events around the War on Terror™ were pretty well done, and like the plot points: it raised the questions, allowed for ambiguity, and didn't hit you over the head with trite answers. I'm never going to say it's one of the best shows ever, but I'd count that as a win.
ZylonBane on 23/3/2009 at 18:23
Quote Posted by Rug Burn Junky
The first two seasons were more than just military/sci-fi, the show was an allegory about the War on Terror™ from the very beginning.
No, it bloody well was not. When the premise of your show is that 99% of humanity has been wiped out by a direct military assault, you've already moved well beyond terrorism.
The less said about the wretched "HEY LOOK WE'RE BEING TOPICAL!!" Battlestar Iraqtica arc, the better. Its only saving grace was the spectacular rescue episode.
