Sulphur on 4/8/2023 at 10:01
Hey. You were probably expecting some sort of post here where I attempt to justify the thread title through a thorough, rigorous analysis of B'sG3's salient features, the way it threads its mechanics into emergent gameplay, and how its plot is about a deep conspiracy perpetrated by a hostile alien outsider.
Well, that would be stupid. Here, instead, is inarguable (
https://twitter.com/AndreSargeant/status/1687182505307418624) video proof of the thread title's assertion, and is the only metric by which you can judge anything's worthiness relative to Ultima VII.
Also, if someone wants to actually talk about the game, this here is your thread for future reference. But you can only discuss it with direct comparisons to Ultima VII: The Black Gate
or else, you hear me :mad::mad::mad:
Thirith on 4/8/2023 at 12:12
I've fallen for Ultima VII comparisons of Larian Games before. I'm not going to do that again. Seriously: the things that Sven Vincke & Co enjoyed most about Ultima are very different from what I loved about that series: the living world, the lack of emphasis on combat, stories focused on ideas and values rather than on fantasy tropes. My chances of enjoying Baldur's Gate 3 will be much better if I don't go in expecting anything like Ultima VII.
Having said that, I'm currently playing Divinity Original Sin 2 in part to gauge whether I'll enjoy Baldur's Gate 3. (I will play it anyway, as I supported the Kickstarter campaign.) There's something about Larian's tone that doesn't really work for me, but that was mainly the first Divinity Original Sin. I'm hoping that with adjusted expectations I'll enjoy the second game - and Baldur's Gate 3, eventually - more.
Sulphur on 4/8/2023 at 12:23
This might seem contrary to my OP, but I was being facetious mostly. I think it's important to temper your expectations about anything when comparing it to a genre great, because Ultima 7 holds a special place in my heart, and yours too, I reckon. We're never going to have that same experience again, because it was a function of that specific moment in time in our lives - few of my gaming memories compare to the one of my friend and me going to Skara Brae one evening after school, and slowly untangling why the entire place was a ghost town, and then capturing Horance in a soul cage. We still talk about that now, nearly three decades later. That's not coming back.
So what I mean is Larian's storytelling is never going to align with Origin's very specific brand of world creation, subjectively and even objectively from a pure quality narrative perspective, and that's fine. The important thing is whether it carries a similar spirit, or part of it, and at least the latter is true. The other half of my U7 experience, apart from discovering what the everloving heck was going on, was fucking around with its NPCs and its world interaction - making bread, stacking crates to access hidden bits, throwing buckets of blood on Shamino's head to make him vomit, you know, the usual stuff. And that half is what Larian seems to love more, actually, which is why there's so much systemic complexity and absurdity to its games. I can see myself playing it just for the sheer pleasure of fucking around in the world, which was - this is absolutely true - 55% of my playtime in U7.
Anyway, Larian's vision may not be the complete package, admittedly, but I hear D:OS 2 did do a lot better if you give its story a chance. While I'm not expecting it to be as foundationally solid as Ultima in terms of narrative, I'm willing to see if they can surprise me, which is probably still a high bar, but also possibly something more within their grasp.
Thirith on 4/8/2023 at 14:58
No worries, I didn't think you were po-facedly serious in your post. It's just that the whole Ultima VII comparison came up so often with respect to Larian's games, it's soured me a bit on them. That and their humour, which I've found pretty hit-and-miss in the games I played. Because of this, I've also found quite a lot of the Baldur's Gate 3 coverage pretty annoying, because so much of it seemed to boil down to "You can fuck a bear, isn't that funny?"
Pyrian on 4/8/2023 at 15:35
You can what
Malf on 7/8/2023 at 09:34
Okay, I've been playing this solidly since release last Thursday, and I'm now back at work after being off with Covid. So I think I can start commenting on it.
I've not even completed the areas that were available in early access yet, as I'm discovering so much stuff that I missed before.
Right off the bat, I'm playing with a party size mod, which allows me to have all companions at once instead of being limited to four. Yes, it makes the game easier, but it doesn't diminish the fun; in fact, the amount of party banter goes up dramatically, and you get to see all sorts of interesting interactions between characters you'd only see after many, many runs without the mod.
And I find the combat even more enjoyable with all the options available from having (currently) 7 party members; it helps deepen my understanding of each class and what roles fit them best.
As for those that say that the game was designed with parties of 4 in mind, it's amazing how many interface features are built in to the game to allow for more, such as a scrolling party bar. I suspect Larian knew that this was going to be one of the most popular mods, and so built the interface to support large party sizes.
Larian have done a lot to allay my fears about the game just being Original Sin 3 but with a different coat of paint.
Yes, there are a lot of interface foibles and assets shared between BG3 and the Original Sin games, but being constrained by someone else's ruleset has done a lot to control some of their more wayward idea.
Inventory management is still god-awful mind you, and it's very easy to build up bags full of crap that you don't know if you need or not.
And while there is still humour in the game, it's nowhere near as goofy as in the Divinity games. The world also feels more fleshed out, thanks to being based on a massively more established IP.
But wow, there are so many things to discover, and it feels like every single encounter and scenario has at least 3-4 resolutions.
My playthrough so far has mostly followed the same beats as my play through Early Access, but I've discovered so many nuances and things I wasn't even aware were possible the first time around, and I thought I'd been thorough.
Even now, I'm thinking of my next playthrough or two and how different I can make it.
Technically, its been pretty bug-free and stable for me so far, with the exception being the second area of the Underdark, where I started getting a noticeable uptick in crashes-to-desktop.
Initially when I started playing, Vulkan was noticeably more stable than Direct X on my 7900XTX. But now there's been a patch, it's the other way around. The other thing I've noticed with my AMD card, and this isn't just for Baldur's Gate 3, is that it doesn't like running games in borderless window mode with two monitors. So I'm now playing full-screen on my main monitor, which makes it a bit of a minor inconvenience for accessing the web browser on the second monitor for wiki tips.
The audio mix is a little odd, and party barks can sound a little quiet sometimes, but it's not massively distracting, so I can live with it.
Other than that, performance is really good.
There's so many little flourishes and unexpected moments in the game that I'd love to gush about, but can't because spoilers.
But one thing I will say: Let Volo operate. It's very funny, and you won't regret it.
Also, at a couple of points, you get the chance to get a dog that you can summon who's supposed to be able to help find stuff (I'm guessing through have another perception role for hidden items). So I summoned him and thought to myself "Huh, I wonder how they dealt with the party climbing ladders with a dog in tow?" thinking he's probably teleport to your character, or some other quick fix.
The answer? They added animations for the dog climbing ladders.
Such a tiny thing they didn't have to bother with, but is just wonderful to discover.
Narrative-wise, it's standard hero's journey stuff. There are enough wrinkles to keep you engaged, but once again, you're the chosen one. It's delivered very well though, and what kind of "hero" you end up becoming is very much down to you.
There are also plenty of time-sensitive triggered events going on, and you can end up missing out on massive chunks of story and opportunities for adventure if you take rests at certain time; for example, if you rest in that second Underdark area after being contacted by someone who needs rescuing, they can die, and all of their colleagues and their associated quests can disappear. And even this isn't necessarily bad, as you may have been given a quest to kill said person, and because you failed to rescue them, when you get there, they're already dead.
Of course, I am aware that I am still playing in the Early Acess area, the one that received the most community feedback, and that it could very well be a lot more polished than the rest of the game. I'm not far from moving on now though, so I will soon see.
But if you like CRPGs and games with interesting interlocking systems, it would be a crime to miss out on this.
There's been a lot of hyperbole about it raising the bar for CRPGs moving forward. And in my opinion, that's pretty accurate. I think this is one of the most important and influential games to be released in years.
I'll add more as I play more, but I would also love for one of my future playthroughs to be co-op if any of the usual crew are interested.
Malf on 14/8/2023 at 09:11
I've just completed Chapter 2, which feels a little more rail-roaded and linear than Chapter 1, but was still incredible. Lots of things that looked like they might be a small secret suddenly blossomed in to large areas with multiple side quests.
It's also great that the game has a very generous respec policy; basically, you can roll any character from the ground up at any point (apart from name, race and background), for the very cheap cost of 100g.
I will be happy to get out of the oppressively dark areas though, and to finally start exploring the titular Baldur's Gate.
I'm starting this last chapter at level 10 out of 12, and my Bard is feeling really good now. There have been quite a few fights I've managed to talk my way out of and a slew of bosses I've talked in to killing themselves :D
And I reckon I'll definitely be diving right back in after completing it to try different characters and different approaches, and let some of the other characters handle the chatty bits.
One thing I will say is that stealth has felt pretty pointless in this game except for picking pockets. Even with a huge investment in stealth, the lowliest goblin can spot a sneaking thief going through their vision cone. I suspect it may be better to switch to turn-based when crossing vision cones, otherwise you're fighting too many rolls in too small a period of time.
I also only just realised that staves in this game can be used one-handed. I'd brought baggage with me from every other CRPG and just assumed that they were two-handed :E
This is game-changing, especially for Druids using Shillelagh. They can buff the staff so their to-hit is their spell-casting bonus, and they can then wield a shield in their off-hand and get the bonuses from a second bit of kit, as well as the associated armour class bonus.
Two-thirds of the way through, and I've only just realised this :cheeky:
It is a bit odd having Jaheira join the team, as they join at the same level as the rest of your party. But it's still very cool having them around.
I'm assuming it'll be the same for Minsc, who I can't wait to meet :cheeky:
driver on 14/8/2023 at 22:50
I've been curious about BG3 for a while and I'm reluctant to look into it too much for fear of spoilers, so I'd appreciate it if someone could answer a question for me: How does this tie into the previous two games? Throne of Bhaal had, what I'd consider to be, a pretty definite ending, so continuing the story seems like a bit of a stretch. If you're not playing the same character from the first two games, then how does it work as a sequel?
Jason Moyer on 15/8/2023 at 02:56
I'd assume the only link is the setting, which would mean that it would have more to do with Baldur's Gate than 2 did.
Malf on 15/8/2023 at 05:14
The links between BG2 and 3 aren't massive, but they're there.
Mild spoiler (as this has featured in the marketing):
There's a couple of companions from the first game that show up, Jaheira and Minsc.
HEAVY Spoiler (seriously, unless you want one of the core mysteries spoiled, don't read this):
Ultimately, the main "antagonist" turns out to be Bhaal again, although this time he's brought friends, the two other Dead Gods, Bane and Myrkul.
