AltF4 on 21/6/2011 at 23:57

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On the topic of npc/monster levelling in sync with the player character levelling, I'm not a fan either, but given that its going to be in, I'd prefer favour a range of levels that moves with the character, with some random (or fixed) areas having monsters at the extreme high and low ends of the range.

EG, for the vast majority of the content (dungeons, towns, wilderness), set a range of +/- 4 levels (pick any variable you want here, depending on how much difficulty/variety you want), obviously ignoring negatives when the pc level is low.

For specific areas, allow random mobs that exceed this scale at either end - ie, encountering a will o wisp in a spooky swampy area, or a powerful undead in a necromancer cave. There should always be those areas you feel really scared to go into, so that when you do level up, you get a feeling of accomplishment when you're smashing the mobs to bits.

At the other end, running into a weak mud crab near the coast should always be possible too...

Nameless Voice on 22/6/2011 at 16:57

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Unfortunately, you're misremembering some of that.

Morrowind, and Daggerfall before it, had entirely level-based lists of enemies to spawn (as you mentioned), but they didn't quite work how you said.

If you went into a daedric ruin in Morrowind at level 2, it would decide that that all the daedra were too tough for you, so it wouldn't spawn any. You'd still have to deal with the cultists, though, and those weren't levelled, so you might still be in for a rather nasty fight. It doesn't change the fact that there would be no daedra.


One problem with allowing you to go anywhere and find anything is the ease with which you can find amazing items early on and break the entire difficulty curve of the game (e.g. I know exactly where the Dragonbone Cuirass is in Morrowind, I could easily start a new game, head right there, and have an amazing suit of armour making me ridiculously hard to kill for the entire early parts of the game). The Gothic series got around this in a rather interesting way, by having crazy Strength requirements on all the weapons, so even if you found a really good weapon, you couldn't use it until you were strong enough. Having minimum skill requirements before you can effectively wield certain weapons would have the same effect, so for example, at low skill levels an iron longsword would actually be more effective than a daedric one, because you're not skilled enough to use the latter properly.

And yes, I realise I've just made a comparison between armour and weapons, but eh, the point should still be valid.

northeast on 22/6/2011 at 20:22

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Hm. Perhaps I am misremembering. It's been 8(?) years since I played it. I also modded the hell of of that game too. Though, really, the fun fights in the game were usually with NPCs of playable races, which were all static. I suppose that was my main point. Everything scaled in Oblivion, and it was horrible.

Imagine picking the locks to Vivec's Palace at level 1 (with some buffs, scrolls or whatever you need) and finding a Char_level + 5 Vivec. (I wonder if Shivering Isles's story line is a response to the people who complain that Oblivion does not leave you feeling like a god at the end.)

I don't mind being able to find and use amazing equipment early in subsequent playthroughs. I find the notion of equipping requirements rather silly. If you can use a low-quality variant of a sword, the similar legendary variety should often be easier to use. (Though, comparing real-world weapon to imaginary weapons is rather silly too.) And, really, if I can carry it in my loot bag, I should have the strength to swing it or wear it.

A compromise I'd make for people who want to maintain a semblance of balance through multiple playthroughs would be randomized location for some items. This would fit in with Skyrim's flirtations with quest randomization. (Of which I am a bit worried.) It follows, in a way. If they can randomize quests (and keep quality), then you can minimize the amount of metagaming knowledge the player has. Knowing item locations is fairly similar to knowing quest solutions in the effect it has on repeat plays.

Actually... Perhaps... Say you find a legendary long sword. It has an array of lovely abilities, known through countless fables. A skilled swordsman using it would have the ability to deal larger base damage AND have access to the abilities (fire on strike, paralyse, etc.) The problem is that you begin the game terrible at wielding a long sword; using this thing is just as effective as using a wooden imitation. As you gain in skill you will be able to better utilize the beautiful deadliness of the artifact. The effective stats progress to the legendary potential. One can even mix and match skills to artifact effects, like knowing destruction to a certain degree better utilizes the fire strike.

Matthew on 23/6/2011 at 09:33

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Is the compromise perhaps to have some variation on the 'item levelling' systems that some MMO games like Lord of the Rings Online and Star Trek Online have?

AltF4 on 24/6/2011 at 04:58

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The mods for oblivion that focused on character, NPC/monsters, and item levelling were generally a must have if you didn't want to move the difficulty slider to easy side in direct proportion to your charatcer level.

On a slightly different note, I'm curious about Skyrim with regard to casting spells while holding a bow. Most of the stuff I've read indicates that you can "set" each of your hands to use a weapon, or spell or shield etc, and for spells, you can either have different ones, or the same one, thereby supersizing the power of that spell. Two handed weapons such as claymores and bows take up both your hand "slots".

But if bows take up both hands, does that mean you cant cast spells until you unequip the bow and then equip one of your hands with a spell, and THEN cast it ? Ie, my preferred play style involves sneaking through dungeons, holding my bow, while casting detect life, shield, "see in the darks" spells, weakness to poison, unlock, summon scamp etc, as appropriate to the situation. The point is, I dont have to unequip my bow to cast these spells, I just change my current spell selection (bound to hotkeys usually), and then select my casting button, WITHOUT having to unequip my friggin bow !

If true, this would be quite a downside to Skyrim, in spite of the generally positive directions it seems to be taking elsewhere...