*Zaccheus* on 4/7/2007 at 16:36
It is really not that simple.
Fragony on 4/7/2007 at 16:42
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
It is really not that simple.
It is really not that hard, do you think that emperial ambitions are exclusively a western thing? No such thing as the political islam? Stop seeing these people as noble cherokee indians fighting invading western forces, we are at the recieving end here, and so is the what some would call moderate muslim world.
*Zaccheus* on 4/7/2007 at 17:00
Quote Posted by Fragony
It is really not that hard
It is not that hard at all - if everyone everywhere just stopped killing each other, the world would be a much nicer place.
Quote Posted by Fragony
do you think that emperial ambitions are exclusively a western thing? No such thing as the political islam?
That's the whole point. Iraq is a very complex situation with many ambitions and fears and motivations interacting with each other.
Quote Posted by Fragony
Stop seeing these people as noble cherokee indians fighting invading western forces
Interesting comparison. I don't think the invading western forces considered them to be very noble at the time.
Quote Posted by Fragony
, we are at the recieving end here
We invaded their country. Of course we are at the receiving end. What did you expect?
Quote Posted by Fragony
, and so is the what some would call moderate muslim world.
And various other groups as well, including secular trade union members.
Besides all this, I was speculating how these suspects may have been seeing things, rather than stating how I see things.
jay pettitt on 4/7/2007 at 17:06
Quote Posted by Fragony
It is really not that hard, do you think that emperial ambitions are exclusively a western thing? No such thing as the political islam? Stop seeing these people as noble cherokee indians fighting invading western forces, we are at the recieving end here, and so is the what some would call moderate muslim world.
Lets get this straight. 'We' are on the receiving end of a dastardly
NHS terrorist plot whereby people set fire to the insides of their cars while they're still in them. (In other news Alan Johnson announces a review of the NHS.)
To be honest I think it's very sad that people are disaffected and disjointed in such a way that they can be manipulated by bitter fanatics such that they think it's heroic to blow themselves and other people up. Hooray for the sad little propaganda war being fought out between the White House & Co. and Religious freaks everywhere.
Fragony on 4/7/2007 at 17:16
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
Besides all this, I was speculating how these suspects may have been seeing things, rather than stating how I see things.
Well that's the thing, stop wondering about that. Ever thought about the muslim world itselve? These guys are as welcome as the inquisition. The political islam is a fact, and it uses the only weapon at hand, and that weapon is terrorism.
Why not read up, here's a good start
(
http://books.google.nl/books?id=4ysJAAAACAAJ&dq=Trail+of+political+islam)
The late twentieth century has witnessed the emergence of an unexpected and extraordinary phenomenon: Islamist political movements. Beginning in the early 1970s, militants revolted against the regimes in power throughout the Muslim world and exacerbated political conflicts everywhere. Their jihad, or "Holy Struggle," aimed to establish a global Islamic state based solely on a strict interpretation of the Koran. Religious ideology proved a cohesive force, gathering followers ranging from students and the young urban poor to middle-class professionals. After an initial triumph with the Islamic revolution in Iran, the movement waged jihad against the USSR in Afghanistan, proclaiming for the first time a doctrine of extreme violence. By the end of the 1990s, the failure to seize political power elsewhere led to a split: movement moderates developed new concepts of "Muslim democracy" while extremists resorted to large-scale terrorist attacks around the world. "Jihad" is the first extensive, in-depth attempt to follow the history and geography of this disturbing political-religious phenomenon. Fluent in Arabic, Kepel has traveled throughout the Muslim world gathering documents, interviews, and archival materials inaccessible to most scholars, in order to give us a comprehensive understanding of the scope of Islamist movements, their past, and their present. As we confront the threat of terrorism to our lives and liberties, Gilles Kepel helps us make sense of the ominous reality of jihad today.
These aren't traumatised victims. Google Muslim Brotherhood and what they have in mind for you and the rest of the world. They will fail, or already have failed, doesn't make them any less dangerous.
jay pettitt on 4/7/2007 at 18:12
The twats thought it was a good idea to set fire to themselves. Trust me, they are victims.
SubJeff on 4/7/2007 at 21:03
It always amazes me when people are really shocked at doctors doing nutty/violent stuff. It's not like doctors aren't human and thus prone to all the usual character flaws, and in recent history there are many cases of murderous doctors - that terrorist leader in Palestine who is a paediatrician, Shipman, the Nazi doctors. What surprises me more is that people can train for so long and just waste it all in frankly rubbish attack AND get themselves badly burnt in the process. It's not like they don't know what burns do ffs. Ouch.
*Zaccheus* on 4/7/2007 at 21:32
Quote Posted by Fragony
Well that's the thing, stop wondering about that.
Why on earth should I stop wondering why another human wants to kill me?
Quote:
Why not read up, here's a good start
Do you assume I have not already looked into the matter?
Quote Posted by Fragony
The political islam is a fact, and it uses the only weapon at hand, and that weapon is terrorism.
You don't actually believe that, do you? Political islam may be a fact (just like political right wing christianity is a fact), but terrorism is hardly its only weapon. A lot of the support for hamas, for example, comes from their social work in Gaza, providing schools and hospitals. That's a very effective tactic.
Quote Posted by Fragony
These aren't traumatised victims.
Some of them are. Others are cynically manipulating that trauma and abusing it for their own ends.
Quote Posted by Fragony
Google Muslim Brotherhood and what they have in mind for you and the rest of the world. They will fail, or already have failed, doesn't make them any less dangerous.
I wasn't planing to vote for them anyway. ;)
