nickie on 4/6/2017 at 20:08
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Wait, you thought I was serious?
Yes I did. I thought you might have seen the light. As some people here know, I have an incredibly annoying habit of trying to think the best of people. But don't worry, I won't make the same mistake of not fully reading your posts again. Still, I didn't see a statistic and you appear to have edited your post anyway.
Renzatic on 4/6/2017 at 21:39
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
The statistic I put out was complete bullshit and you fell right for it because it fit your confirmation bias.
I have no idea how someone can manage to be so sanctimonious and stupid at the same time.
Has it ever occurred to you, Tony, that you yourself are falling victim to the very things you happily point out in others? I mean here you are, constantly using the tiniest coincidences and most incidental points of data to verify your worldview, then, when someone points this fact out to you, offering up evidence to counter the sweeping accusations you make using the smallest amount of evidence, you end up doing shit like what you've done above, accusing us of being bounded rationally instead of addressing the points handed to you.
I mean goddamn it's obnoxious. Not that you'll ever realize it as such. You'll just claim it's us squirming about under the harsh light of the truths you've put on display, unable to come to terms with our cognitive dissonances or what the fuck ever.
Tony_Tarantula on 4/6/2017 at 22:16
Quote Posted by Starker
Here's a question. What do you think anti-immigrant policies will accomplish? Do you think it's worth giving up Western values like religious freedom and human rights to achieve that? Can you explain why Norway has been largely free of Islamic terror attacks even though they lack anti-immigrant policies.
Now let me take it even a step further. Do you think nationalism should be banned because of the extremists who go and kill people?
Strawman argument. I have yet to advocate banning immigration. Please react to what is actually said rather than this Alex Jones caricature you have in your head.
As mentioned before, I have even written letters of recommendation to help people get into the United States as refugees because I worked with those people and hold a high opinion of their character.
Quote Posted by nickie
Yes I did. I thought you might have seen the light. As some people here know, I have an incredibly annoying habit of trying to think the best of people. But don't worry, I won't make the same mistake of not fully reading your posts again. Still, I didn't see a statistic and you appear to have edited your post anyway.
The original statement I made was that "Poland has more terror attacks than the rest of Europe combined". That was not edited and is still on my first post. Why is it that you believe that the primary cause of terrorism is anti-immigrant policies and internet hate speech?
Also
note the implication that anyone who disagrees with your assessment is a bad person. Great illustration of why I believe 2017 era "progressives" aren't any different from the people who were warning us in the 1980's that you were going to go to hell if you played Dungeons and Dragons
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I have no idea how someone can manage to be so sanctimonious and stupid at the same time.
Has it ever occurred to you, Tony, that you yourself are falling victim to the very things you happily point out in others? I mean here you are, constantly using the tiniest coincidences and most incidental points of data to verify your worldview, then, when someone points this fact out to you, offering up evidence to counter the sweeping accusations you make using the smallest amount of evidence, you end up doing shit like what you've done above, accusing us of being bounded rationally instead of addressing the points handed to you.
I mean goddamn it's obnoxious. Not that you'll ever realize it as such. You'll just claim it's us squirming about under the harsh light of the truths you've put on display, unable to come to terms with our cognitive dissonances or what the fuck ever.
It's not a "tiniest coincidence". If we accept the hypothesis that terrorism is caused by policies that make immigration difficult, then it would logically follow that places like Poland, Japan, and New Zealand all would have massive terrorism problems.
That is not the case. It turns out that the only developed European/American countries to have zero scores on the Global Terrorism are ones that are known for hardline immigration policies. Most of the rest are either ethnically homogenous Asian cultures or totalitarian regimes.
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Terrorism_Index)
What effect do immigration policies have on terrorism? Very little as it turns out. That's not "one coincidental" thing...it's data that covers the entire freaking world.
Here's my challenge. If I'm that stupid, you're very welcome to actually show some studies that prove that terrorism is caused primarily by anti-immigration policy.
Of course you won't do that. You'll call me a lot of names and use the word "fuck" a lot.
Think about it....I'd PREFER if you can prove your point, but if you want to think about why terrorism exists, it isn't "immigration policy" or mean words on Twitter. Philosophical question: what's the difference between Obama bombing weddings with a drone, and some Syrian twerp bombing a concert with a suicide vest? What I'm thinking of has absolutely nothing to do with ideology, right and wrong, or anything of the sort.
Trance on 4/6/2017 at 22:33
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Strawman argument. I have yet to advocate banning immigration. Please react to what is actually said rather than this Alex Jones caricature you have in your head.
Why don't you make it clear to the class what your position actually IS, so we can all get this Alex Jones caricature out of our head? All the pointed (and ultimately pointless) questions you're asking lead us toward that picture of what it is you believe.
Lay it out for us. What position do you hold on our immigration policies, and how would you change them if you could?
Tony_Tarantula on 4/6/2017 at 22:53
Quote Posted by Trance
Why don't you make it clear to the class what your position actually IS, so we can all get this Alex Jones caricature out of our head? All the pointed (and ultimately pointless) questions you're asking lead us toward that picture of what it is you believe.
Lay it out for us. What position do you hold on our immigration policies, and how would you change them if you could?
How about something a bit more reasonable than either side's nutjobs? Fully open borders is stupid, and banning all travel with a black and white rule is stupid.
I've also stated that multiple times before. None of you all cared to notice because for some reason, any criticism or displeasure with no questions asked, completely unregulated open borders makes you a raging white supremacist or something.
The other point you make is answered as follows: attacking one stupid idea does not necessarily imply endorsement of the equally opposite extreme position.
Trance on 4/6/2017 at 22:59
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
How about something a bit more reasonable than either side's nutjobs? Fully open borders is stupid, and banning all travel with a black and white rule is stupid.
I've also stated that multiple times before. None of you all cared to notice because for some reason, any criticism or displeasure with no questions asked, completely unregulated open borders makes you a raging white supremacist or something.
You've stated a lot of things, in a lot of ways, and never really seemed to make a post that anyone could follow all the way to the end. You have a big problem with arguing effectively, it seems, and it's something you desperately need to work at if you want to be perceived as a reasonable individual who thinks reasonable things about the world's issues.
You can see an example of this in your own reply you just gave. I asked you to lay out your stance on immigration policy, and you gave about the vaguest possible response. What you gave me provides NO details about how you want immigration policy to improve. Nothing that anyone can grab onto and use to arrive at a definite conclusion. Nothing of substance.
Try again, harder this time. What would you change? Be specific.
Tony_Tarantula on 4/6/2017 at 23:59
Simple. Vet refugees...and start being willing to deport violent criminals. There was a recent case where a group of "asian men" gang raped a lady in London and the police response was to release them. In another incident in Germany the judge allowed a Turkish man to walk free because he came from a culture where rape would be perceived as "really wild sex"(I wish I was making that up: (
https://translate.google.com/translate?act=url&depth=1&hl=de&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://m.maz-online.de/Lokales/Brandenburg-Havel/Sex-mit-Gewalt-aber-keine-Vergewaltigung)). Nevermind the foolishness of not even doing a medical screening for things like highly contagious diseases commonly found in certain areas.
People like to make a big stink about European immigrants in the early 20th century, but that process was very different from what open borders advocates defend and it is dishonest for them to conflate the two.
I could explain more at length, but that kind of reaction (obvious racism in that judge's statement aside) isn't going to help. Anyone who thinks that if you are just exceptionally nice to people from a war-torn region that it will cause them to suddenly understand that you're a good person and not do anything violent is sorely mistaken. How well do you think that would work out if you're a black person about to be hung by a KKK crew? Or a polish guy who was accosted for wearing a blue t-shirt in a bloods neighborhood while visiting LA?
The world simply doesn't work like that unless you're in an environment completely free from predators. When you are dealing with people who have a predator psychology that kind of behavior only gets you marked as an easy target and singled out for more mistreatment.
I'd also throw that barb back at you. The consensus opinion on the forum seems to be that terrorism is caused by anti-immigration laws and anti-immigrant sentiment on Social media. I have yet to see anything posted to support that claim.
SD on 5/6/2017 at 00:36
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
There was a recent case where a group of "asian men" gang raped a lady in London and the police response was to release them.
Do you have a source for this "case"?
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
The consensus opinion on the forum seems to be that terrorism is caused by anti-immigration laws and anti-immigrant sentiment on Social media.
An instance of anyone claiming anything like this would be welcome too, while we're at it.
Starker on 5/6/2017 at 00:58
Nobody has fully open borders and accepts people without vetting. That argument is a non-starter. For example, in the US it takes
on average 18-24 months of comprehensive multi-step security vetting and obviously much longer for some countries like Syria.
And considering your track record with sources, Tony, you often
are just making things up or falling for obvious lies/conspiracy theories. And even if that's not the case, anecdotes are no substitute for actual crime statistics that overwhelmingly confirm that immigrants are not especially prone to crime compared to the overall population.
Quote:
I'd also throw that barb back at you. The consensus opinion on the forum seems to be that terrorism is caused by anti-immigration laws and anti-immigrant sentiment on Social media. I have yet to see anything posted to support that claim.
This is because nobody here believes that. For someone who accuses other of having caricatures in their heads just for asking questions, you seem to have some very odd beliefs yourself. A classic case of projection?
hopper on 5/6/2017 at 09:30
Your wish has been granted, because you
are making that up. As per usual, you quote a source and distort what it says to make it align with what you believe. The judge in the case made no such statement, and it certainly wasn't the basis for the acquittal, which, by the way, even the state's attorney sought. He was aqcuitted because intent could not be proved, as is apparently necessary for a conviction of rape. Those words about Turkish culture were made by the plaintiff herself, not the judge.
You may not agree with the acquittal in this case (and, based on the details in the newspaper story, I don't), but nothing in the story supports your allegation that he was let off because of "Turkish sex culture". Even if it had been turned down for the reason you stated, which it didn't, what would it prove? That "Germany" lets Turkish men get away with rape because of their cultural background? They don't. This case is an outlier no matter what. To present it as representative of a misguided general leniency towards people from foreign cultures is dishonest.
But that's not even the real point. Apart from your established pattern of making claims unfounded by the sources you provide, you are setting up armies of straw men for you to attack. Examples from your LAST TWO POSTS in this thread include:
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
for some reason, any criticism or displeasure with no questions asked, completely unregulated open borders makes you a raging white supremacist or something
Nobody has even come close to claiming this.
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Anyone who thinks that if you are just exceptionally nice to people from a war-torn region that it will cause them to suddenly understand that you're a good person and not do anything violent is sorely mistaken.
Treating them with utter contempt is probably not very helpful, either. Really, what is the point of this?
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
The consensus opinion on the forum seems to be that terrorism is caused by anti-immigration laws and anti-immigrant sentiment on Social media. I have yet to see anything posted to support that claim.
I have yet to see anything posted to support that claim.
Oh, and one more thing:
Quote Posted by Tony_Tarantula
Vet refugees...and start being willing to deport violent criminals
In Germany, refugees are being held by the tens of thousands while they are being vetted, and violent criminals (as well as turned-down asylum seekers) are being flown back to their home countries on a daily basis. Would you like to suggest something else that isn't already being done as a matter of routine?
