voodoo47 on 10/10/2012 at 18:14

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there are graphics cards with better price/performance ratio out there. for example, the hd7850 1GB can be obtained for as low as 160e, and it packs way more punch than 550ti.

bikerdude on 10/10/2012 at 18:50

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1. I assume your budget is a max of €700.
2. What website/s would you like to buy your system from..? so I can look for a better spec/price!
3. Some of the components are very poor - Gpu(as has been said already), Case, Psu
4. What's the full spec of the system you already have as we may well be able to use items from that.

zombe on 11/10/2012 at 13:19

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* Is it a price-comparable performance jump from the 112€ one i listed?
* Have stayed away from ATI as i (as an programmer who also prefers OpenGL) value feature richness (vs lowest common denominator as preferred in games) over performance - ATI has been ~1 decade persistently shit or dripping shit in that regard (ie ATI perf/cost ratio is often over NVIDIA, but featureset+development is the other way around). Consequently - i can not proclaim to know for sure what the current state of ATI is. Have to research that, just in case ... that will take a bit of time ...


* Was it a Gigabyte / Asus / etc card or is it a problem with the gpu chip itself? There used to be a time when (aggregated common sense via Google follows x_x) Asus was consistently faulty (trying too much to get the chip to its limits), but Gigabyte ones were much more reasonably balanced (hence more sturdy). But now i see they say there usually is no difference anymore.
* Gigabyte NVIDIA GTX 560 1GB asks 186€ ... which is quite a lot, but the raw stats are nicer too:

... have to think about it. The thing is, i am not much of a gamer (lack of time) mostly, so i am a bit vary of overstretching it beyond what i actually end up needing beyond programming geekiness.


1. Not necessarily, if what i get justifies the price then there essentially is no cap. I would just like it to not be significantly more.
2. In Estonia ... so, very unlikely anyone here happens to be able to help given the language barrier. Used (http://arvutikaubad.ee/computer._show_24_.html) this initial template (just for the respec'ing convenience they offer) - if i have gathered some resemblance of what i actually want/need then i will request offers from bigger shops based on it (just in case they beat the offer).
3. What is lacking on Case / PSU front (if i go over 550 then 400W might not be enough i guess)?
4. Nothing can be reused - it changes hands in its full glory. Although it has a good case i would like to keep (Chieftec 01B-B-SL, air filters everywhere, closeable front panel, air tunnel/vent, separate cooling for hdds). Still, one way or the other - one new case is needed.

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Going to educate myself about ATI cards ... or at least trying.

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edit: Noticed something (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/888732)
... XP is limited to 2 processors. My old PC has 2 cores and 4 threads (HT) - does that count as 1 or 2 processors. And more importantly, what about a CPU with 4 cores (4-8threads)? Am i forced to update the OS too?

edit: It seems they count indeed processors, not cores nor threads.

edit: Hm ...
167.00€ => Sapphire RADEON HD 7850 1GB
176.90€ => Sapphire RADEON HD 7850 2GB Lite Retail
Radeon HD 7850: GDDR5 PitcairnPro 1024:64:32 BW:153.6 FR:27.5/55.0 GF:1761.3 130W
(http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1160&lid=1&pid=1674&leg=0)
... my ability to justify NVIDIA options is fading (Still no OGl4.3 support - well not much of OGl support period. Question is - how much do i care ... really :/). Wondering how comparable their raw stats are.

bikerdude on 11/10/2012 at 20:27

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* If you if half care about wanting useable OpenGl perf then stay away from ATi, even thier latest
* Dethtol was referring to the chip itself, from what he saying its shit for the most part.
* Ok I am using google translate to gather a list for you.
* All you need is a half descent case and quality PSU, I will look on the website link you gave me.

zombe on 12/10/2012 at 15:28

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dethtoll, btw, how did the faultiness of the GPU manifest itself? I have never had any GPU fail for me (Current GPU, Gigabyte 9600 GT: no moving parts and works happily around 90 Celsius).

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bikerdude:
Oh, did not think of Google translate. (www.arvutikaubad.ee) is a very small and relatively specialized shop - and quite expensive (they have very personal approach). Its web shop is just a convenient platform to assemble a PC in - if lucky, they offer what is needed, can buy most there (my last PC was from there in its entirety). I do not know any other shop that has non-shit web interface - all the bigger shops are like (http://www.ordi.ee/EPood/Products.aspx?MC=ARVUTID&IC=9910) this. No online respec options at all and the presets have almost no information what exact components are used.

There is a IT aggregate site also "(http://www.hinnavaatlus.ee/) hinnavaatlus" ~ "price-watch".
Very through search capabilities (plenty of filters: for price and device-class specific stats). Lists per specific hardware piece: how many shops offer that specific device and the price range over all existing shops (Essentially, for over half a decade already, a shop can not exist without at least daily updated linkage with (www.hinnavaatlus.ee)) and which ones have it in storage etc.

Currently has ~1600 PC presets listed ... none are worth considering as some of my requirements just conflict with "commons sense" as defined by the usual presets (8GB mem & no more than 500GB hdd just does not fly + other oddities / pickiness).

While most of the PC i want to be assembled at the shop (not necessarily from (www.arvutikaubad.ee)), some of the components can come from where-ever. For example: GPU, HDD. There is one shop who offers assembling service too (ie. bring your pieces there and they assemble and test it for you [some 30min stress-test iirc, which is relevant if you assembled it from their parts which can be returned], was ~15€ iirc) - but never used it nor know anyone who has (relatively new service).

GPU i most likely get via (www.hinnavaatlus.ee). So every option there is viable.

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Checking the finds:
"Case: Frontier Glacier - €42" - a good case (for me oc) is one whose existence i do not notice. (http://www.arvutikaubad.ee/product._show_7543_.html) - looks the exact opposite :(
"PSU: Fortron 650W (90+) - €89" - 650W!, why so much? I could understand 500W as the GPU in the set eats up to 200W. What is eating the rest (Don't know how much CPU takes)? PS: I do not intend to add anything to the PC later.

Just in case (local warranty/support tends to be more accountable/reliable) want to avoid foreign shops, even within EU.

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I really hate that cases, while there are an absolute crap-ton of them, pretty much none of their descriptions/pictures tell anything.
* absolutely must have: good dust filtering (or the PC will go up in flames withing half a year - guaranteed).
* hard to justify not having: good airflow (like air tunnel with its own fan / good HDD cooling).
* would be nice: non obnoxious (As long as one can just cut through the wires that do the obnoxious/unnecessary part. Erm, i mean something to the effect without voiding the warranty).

GPU ... i think i need to take some time to think about it.
* I would really like a 2GB GPU (1GB i have now tends to run out - i like 3D textures).
* Being completely and utterly ignorant of AMD camp can not be healthy (Especially as far as OpenGL is concerned - AMD usually follows the specification whereas NVIDIA usually just ignores it completely (Stuff done with NVIDIA cards often does not work with AMD because of this - people, unjustifiably, often blame AMD regardless).
* Basic OpenGL/CL should be fairly equal with NVIDIA/AMD (AMD's CL is said to be better even).
* ... BUT, with NVIDIA i know what to expect (good OpenGL support, although their extensions tend to be "evil"/self-serving). And every AMD GPU i have ever had (well 2 of em) has been with superb price/performance ratio and extremely gimped piece of shit as far as features go (Max 4 [unlimited for NVIDIA] texture indirections x_x [a term added to OpenGL only to accommodate ATI shortcomings at the time as far as i know], seriously? Terrible times).

Luckily, there really is not much reason to buy a PC with GPU included from the start (pretty much every motherboard [if not all] has some shitty integrated GPU already that can be used till the real GPU arrives).

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Another thought i had. Everyone who has done some texture compression can appreciate a 4core / 8thread CPU. So do i (*). Have to check the prices.

*) checking a dozen "crunch" settings with ONE 2048x2048 RGBA texture ... takes a while ... a looooong while (hourS). The newer standard BC formats are even worse - significantly worse.