Le Magot d'Oz on 4/3/2002 at 02:48
Strange : you could use the key on the keyring but not the key ring on the key...
you often got 'color' bug after a nightvision spell
some more good stuff I want write down for tonight (because I read them nowhere) :
/ you could display the rune of a spell on screen in casting mode -once check your spell book- and try to draw them one by one !
/ you could cast spells with more than 3 runes !
/ you could interrupt a spell before you run out of mana
/ very nice overall work with the magic aspect (especially in the spellbook) to make it easiest as possible
-> maybe some shortcut for the memorised spells could be usefull
/ the dynamic lighting when you move with your torch
/ you heard your heart beat after something difficult : discrete but effective
/ the blood stains do not suddenly disappear but fade smoothly ; you can slain the corpse and obtain a very nice bleeding
/ the opponnent status is well implemented also (around the hit gem) : same comment as for the heart sound ; but what about a fight with several -close- opponents ?
/ the optimal fog distance -regardless the frame rate- seems to be around 15
have you noticed that when you take the stairs down, the fog is everywhere !
it seems that yog runes (the 'U' from left to right) means fire
SneaksieDave on 4/3/2002 at 19:22
Game looks great so far, and I'm excited about playing the full version. However, I can certainly wait for as long as Arkane/Fishtank want to take for improvements...
That said, I've only an hour or so experience with the demo (my play time was cut short last night! :mad: ), but I can echo many of the things stated here. The load times, the physics problems, eating, etc.
My biggest gripe I wanted to raise though, was about that installation. First, the restart is a bit... well, scary. Apart from that though - does the demo put files anywhere else on my system drive? The demo folder - on a separate drive - took around 160 M, if I remember correctly. However, after installing the demo, my system drive - again, separate - also had over 100 M of space missing. It was not from the swapfile, and it was not install temp files.
IF the demo (and I say if because I'm not sure) installs any files outside of it's own directories, I must say please find a way to change that. People do NOT want their system directories polluted with a bunch of sloppy installations. For this very reason, I removed the demo and re-imaged my system, and instead took the demo over a friends' to play on one of his "expendable" game boxes. Keep the files in the game folder, please.
Let me say again, Arx looks like it's going to be a lot of fun, and so far seems true to the UW feel. Looking forward to it. :D
Edit: Oops! Forgot - let me add a suggestion or three -
-When you enter magic mode, the cursor should default/jump to the center of the screen. Far too many times, my cursor was OFF screen completely, and I had to move it around just to find where it was.
-gesturing seems like it could be a bit more forgiving. I find that I fail more times than not, trying to make the U symbol.
-perhaps a toggleable combat mode, so that easy mousedown starts a swing. It might be more user friendly than the current method of both mouse buttons down. (Is there another way?)
christian_suburbanite on 8/3/2002 at 04:36
"4.) No conversation choices. This must have been an early design choice, and I know it's far too late to change, but oh how it annoys me. No matter how great the rest of Arx is, this will probably keep it from being a classic (at least to me). Two things pull me out of being immersed in an RPG. Over the shoulder third-person `Tomb-Raider' style POV, and not having any dialogue choices. It makes me feel like I'm playing someone else's character, with their words forced into my mouth. For example, I wanted to accept the quest the dying guy gives me, not try to refuse and act all snippy. It's very jarring to have all the options you want in combat, and character building, and world interactivity, only to have them all snatched away and be forced to watch a non-interactive movie when you talk to someone. "
This is also probably my largest gripe. I don't feel close to my character at all.. I really don't know what he's thinking... or why he's doing what he's doing. Conversations really seem to be a drag because of this. I do like how characters simply say what they have to say when you double click on them though... a nice timesaver.
I had trouble with the combat... it seem like it needs to be ironed out (it feels very sketchy, and there were many time where I would charge up the orb to its max only to have nothing happen when I release the button), but that's obviously something that is to be addressed... and I don't consider it to be an overall flaw.
The last thing I noticed was that when the main character's voice would sound very muffled when he'd make a remark while playing. He was fine in cut-scenes.
Otherwise, the surprisingly good graphics... along with the ability to listen to your fish sizzle on an open flame makes me have a huuuuuuuuuuuuge desire for this game. Along with the Underworld series, this may be the only 1st person RPG that I ever bothered to play through.
Take your time... and refine the game to the excellence I'm pretty durn sure you can achieve.
Morte on 8/3/2002 at 15:57
I'll try to keep it brief because it's mostly all been said before
The good:
* Art, graphics and atmosphere. The graphics are good, I especially like the fire effect.The art direction is superb, and everything just oozes atmosphere. Full points here, and I played it on a monitor which refuses to display red. I'll probably enjoy it even more after I fix the damn thing.
* Interactivity. Great. I especially liked being able to eat the puppy. :ebil:
* Level design. Except for having to find a special rope in order to fix the elevator, instead of just grabbing one of those hanging fromm the roof, everything was peachy. If all the levels are up to this standard it might very well become on of my all-time favourites.
* Magic system. Very cool.
The bad:
* Clipping. I had the puppy disappear on several occasions into one of the steps outside the password door. A rat got stuck in one of the stones above the waterfall. When I threw bricks and the like, they often landed partly inside each other. This needs fixing bad.
* Interface. I got used to after a while, but it still feels a bit clunky. I you'd add a way to pick up objects and use things while in free-look it'll be rightly. Also, closing looting screens and the like w/o double clicking on the body/chest/whatever would be appreciated.
* Voice acting. It felt a bit sub-par, especially the goblins. Although I've probably been spoiled by Looking Glass and Black Isle. Writing was all that great either. For example, that 'foreign tounge' thingy. The log book in the outpost could use some work too. ('Small group' instead of 'little group' etc.) Get a proffesional writer to polish it up or, as it's quite likely in french originally, get someone to put more work into the translation. Come to think of it, preferrably both.
* No dialouge choices. Can't be changed now of course, but keep it in mind for future games. It makes you feel less in control, and removes you from your character. I know you can interact with npc's in other ways, buying ale was cool, but it's still needed. It'd also be nice to be able to skip non-essential dialouge without hitting the esc key lika a madman.
* Very minor issue: when the camera cuts away to all the nifty artwork in the conversation with the captain, it gets almost impossible to hear what he says. Haven't had time to play around with sound settings to see if I can fix it though.
* I have a Radeon, so I catch glimpses of my character model every now and then.
* Is the player character really that hungry? You could swear he was Eliar from The Redemption of Althalus the way he keeps at it.
* AI needs some polish.
Wishful thinking:
* Quick-saving is evil and just a bad excuse for sloppy leveldesign. I'd much prefer you'd just add a short-cut to the save/load game menu.
* I want to be able to use the torch as a last resort weapon. When my last weapon breaks, it'd be nice to smash a goblin in the face with a flaming torch instead of having a go at him with my fists.
* Alcohol is good. Let me get totally pissed. Also, other kinds of drugs with funky effects would be nice, especially if they're of practical use instead of just a good laugh.
All things considered, I love it. You have my money.
Le Magot d'Oz on 9/3/2002 at 03:15
Grrr... this demo piss me off ! not even an hourglass sword to be foung ! ;)
why are texts over the head of the character has been removed ? (as it could be see in some shots) : it could be a nice option for people who do not clearly understand one of the 3 languages...
funny : if I kill the guy at the first floor, the barmaid goes upstairs, but noone moves until I got fully upstairs ! (with a range weapon I might be able to shoot them when they were freezing !
when you fail casting high level spells (like critic fail), it might be better if you would suffer from it... (maybe it is actually the case, but I haven't seen it yet...)
Zerker on 9/3/2002 at 16:31
About the conversation options... think that this game is by a first-time developer with a highly limited budget. Do you think they'd be able to hire people to record every possible conversation option? Do you think they'd be able to hire people to TRANSLATE every possible conversation option when making localized versions? It's a side-effect of the limited budget, and I don't think it's ever going to be changed, except for their second game when they become more well-known, and get a larger budget :)
Fuinelen on 9/3/2002 at 17:21
Hmm Zerker, is it already time to start a 'what you wanna see in Arx II?' thread?? ;)
Stryyder on 11/3/2002 at 15:04
Quote:
Originally posted by madmax559 Hi,
some quick first impressions ***warning !!! not necessarily good so take it as constructive criticism :)
hey i code for a living hence the detailed format below ;)
& the extensive nitpicking
all these suggestions are mine so feel free to use them or discard them
obviously i hope the game will turn out to be another underworld...my all time favourite.
[Specs]
1.pIII 550 1gb ram sb live 5.1 geforce ddr
2.windows 2000 sp2 dx 8.0
3.ran this at 1024x768x32bpp
[installation]
1.reboot notice even before the install begins ?
-- will need to be fixed in the final release ...not exactly confidence inspiring
for a tech demo
2.obviously the final build will wind up using wise or msi or something else
so maybe we'll see changes for the next demo
[sound]
1.sound stutters
--out of synch before any gfx are displayes
--loops during the splash screen & locks up
--did the same guy do all the voices ?
--prolly my ears but ssound inflections seem to be off during delivery
[graphics]
1.unable to view intro correctly
--screen locks up so i was forced to set 1st_time=1 so i 'll assume i did miss the intro
2.initial mode set to 640x480
-- why ?? simply give the user a pick list to select one otherwise during a lockup
the whole screen/desktop looks messed when attempting to kill the process
(nb. mode was correctly restored)
3.flames & textures look pretty good
the 2 health & spheres look pixelated & somehow seem out of place
(possible color clash ? ;)
4.generate character screen
--please get rid of / change the moving char in the window....it looks like its "stuck on"
--fonts are hard to read (glasses me thinks ;) but the char screen doesnt look as professional as the rest of the program (think...theif...which looks integrated)
[movement]
1.i might have missed this but is there a zoom function using the mouse wheel ?
2.is there any other way to move apart from the keyboard aka uw2
[gameplay]
1.looks good so far :) will test on an amd 1.2ghz/1gb ram/gf3 next
2.it does really remind me a lot of uw2 ....if only it didnt crash so much
[misc]
1.any specific hardware you guys would like me to test this on ?
(if i have it ofcourse)
To my fellow taffers/ttlgr's
Please voice your opinions here...its a demo/test after all
and any input is better than none & would make for a kick ass product :)
thanx for reading this
pete Installation:
Little nitpicky about the installation almost all installs reboot during the installation this one does it up front to hopefully insure it is installing in a clean environment which is important for a tech demo. Really nothing to complain about just a different approach than what you are used to.
Sound:
Was not out of synch for me but I had volume issues with the dialog seemed to be too low if you were too far away from the person speaking but I have not tried to resolve that with the sound settings yet.
Did the same guy do all the voices no actually all the bar patrons had distinct voices although it seemed the prisoner and the knight commander may have been the same voice actor.
Graphics: P.S. did you crawl at 1024x768 with 32 bit your processor is not the fastest a PIII 550 is pushing it with that setting that isn't even a coppermine they start at the PIII 600.
2)the 640X480 is a good idea it insures that most everyone regardless of PC will be able to get into the game and then be able to change the setting. Most games actually default to either 800 x 600 so a TechDemo at 640x480 isn't a bad idea. Perhaps the full version will ship with a hardware diagnostic tool that will look at your system and recommend settings like a setup program some games have.
3)I agree with the spheres they seem to be out of place with the other colors and textures in the game.
4) Don't understand what you mean by stuck on that character portrait was the first thing that impressed me.
2 Thief has a character screen?? Fonts are blocky and need some better work.
Movement:
No zoom function as this is not garret and no mechanical eye
No other way to move that I know of have you dried binding a movement gey to a mouse button?
Gameplay
It will be a lot smoother for you on the AMD trust me I am running a 1.33 with 256MB PC2100 DDR and a RADEON it looks and move great in 1024x768
No crashes at all for me.
Stryyder on 11/3/2002 at 15:47
Quote:
Originally posted by Dark Angel Heres a list of all the things that bothered me, i'm updating it as i think of things:* Game crashes when i hit a door with a weapon
(DONT HIT DOORS)* When you decide to talk to someone you don't have any statement options like you do in Underworld, this is really important i think. There should be at *least* three very different statements so the player can choose the statement that is closest to how they'd like to respond. The demo was really restricted in that reguard.
(Think about what else you can say it will make you FEEL better)* The goblin lord that you encounter...i don't understand how he knows you're there. As soon as you walk into the area he automaticly "sees" you and theres no other way to get past him other than to kill him.
(He is looking for an escaped prisoner and that gate is the only way to the surface and its his territory and goblins see better in the dark than you do. Seems completely reasonable to me.)* Physics, player movement, very buggy and uncontrolable....as i meantioned before; feels like DeusEx. (in 1024x resolution it begins to have a feel but it still needs a bit of work [hint hint: Havok physics! ;))
(Play it in a lower resolution the graphics rock)* Some of the skill icons are really silly, and kiddy like...such as the "muscle arm" representing strength or the heart representing vitality, surley something more suitable could be used...
(Sorry they offended you this seems to be an extremely subjective statement though.)* The help screens that come up should be optional! And the sound they make really just, doesn't suit at all
(Want a tissue? And if the sound got your attention then it worked! How is the sound of a lute or harp being strummed not appropiate?)* In spell casting mode i think that the drawling lines (the magical particle fx) should form from the centre of the pentagram instead of the upper right corner
(Huh? Want a tissue)* It might be better and more meaningful if the camera stayed in first-person when you die
(It might be but it also might not be)* why does the character scream "NOOO!!!" sometimes when it dies? If its vitality is so low..where does it get the energy to scream like that?
(Maybe he is related to Garret)* The player is a PIG! He cries for food every few minutes! ..its quite annoying. Also sometimes when someones talking to me, he whines about how he's hungry and i miss what the person said
(Try feeding him! Are you a masocist why are you starving your avatar like this??? Fish bake bread have fun! Also you shouldn't complain about whining glass houses and stones and such.* There should be at least three movement speeds! Creeping, walking, and running for control purposes
(Actually there are you 'run' normally when you hit stealth you walk and when you crouch you walk when you hit stealth and crouch you are 'creeping'* The leaning didn't even seem like it was finished so i won't even comment..but i really think there should be a forward lean as well
( I THOUGHT YOU SAID YOU WERE NOT GOING TO COMMENT!?!?!?)* There needs to be a "Hold Crouch" keybind, it gets confusing when i'm holding down like three buttons at the same time (when i sneak). Those keys being Forward, Shift, and Crouch
So you do know how to creep you just complained about that sheesh! Hold Crouch would be nice though* Mouse keybind customization would be very nice, also so we could use keyboard keys to do things such as switching modes
(All games should allow you to customize controls fully I agree. Don't be so amazed I agree sometimes)* Blood and cob webs are way too bright! They seem to glow in the dark...
(Don't you know that giant spider blood and cobwebs DO glow in the dark!!! This is the first game to render it properly trust me!!)* i'd like to be able to put skulls and other such things that *could* fit in my inventory but the game won't allow!
(Close your eyes and imagine a skull in your inventory it will make you FEEL better and you won't be wasting inventory slots on useless items!)* Once you alert an AI, they'll always be facing you whether they can see you or not so sneaking up from behind and backstabing them is basicly impossible[B}(OH MY GOD are you saying that once you alert an enemy it will be smart enough not to turn its back on you?? How horrible what are we going to do semi intelligent AI? Oh no stop production!!!
* Needs better looking player characters! At least give one of them long, black hair :)
(I want one that looks like BARNEY oh by the way THIS IS A TECH DEMO I AM SURE THERE WILL BE MORE!)* i really don't like the rats death motion...its just fake looking
(Oh its horrible when the GIANT RATS die in a fake manner its amazing how you can only suspend your disbelief so far)* How about a boarder and a black (void) background around the character model in the book? It looks "stuck" on as someone meantioned already
(Not a bad ide)* i don't like the red flashings on-screen when you get damaged. The player should just make a sound indicating it was damaged (much like it was done in Thief, is what i mean)
(I agree)* When you get drunk, get the player *drunk*! Red flashes simpily won't do! (Laughing when you get in fights and when you attack might be really good :) )
(Don't you know that drinking is BAD FOR YOU!!!* There definetly needs to be more varied damage voice overs for the AI, they all have the same voice when they get hit and theres probably only about 3 damage VOs in all
* Why is that you can take the meat off a pig, or a dog, or a chicken..but not off humans or goblins?
(You would eat a goblin or a person wouldn't you!)* Pathfinding is a little buggy i've noticed, like for example in the demo if your across the bridge (3rd map) and an AI is in the water...they'll just stand there taunting you. Or the little doggy that you can get to follow you, whenever it goes back (but why does this happen? It should follow you for the remainder of the game!) it acts as though there arn't walls in its way, it'll go directly to that point, instead of going around walls and such realisticly.
* i've read a lot of things saying that you're suppose to feel like you have complete freedom...though i don't feel like i have all that much, this is because of the way you're forced into objectives. How you (as the player) has no choice in, for example to tell this king that these people have declared war on these other people....had i a choice i wouldn't do this at all. In fact i myself was angered by those near-dieing soliders by them trying to tell me what to do, i slaughtered them as soon as i had a chance. And yet, the game kind of forces you to help them anyhow...its not like Underworld at all in that reguard. Which also takes me back to how you have no statement options during conversations...this is my only really serious problem with the game.
(THIS IS A TECH DEMO NOT THE FULL GAME and it obviously isn't your only problem as why did you talk about everything else??* The lady that owns the tavern doesn't seem to care if you're behind the counter, nor does she care if you steal the wine...
(THIEF THIEF THIEF!!!!* If you attack someone at the tavern, all of a sudden everyone in there starts attacking you....why is this? Unless everyone in there are friends of some sort, i don't understand why they do this. Realisticly, if that happened everyone would most likley just watch to see what happens...
(Come to my town and go ahead and attack someone in a barn and see what happens!* The footstep sounds are really nice, but the landing "footstep" sounds just like a normal footstep, there needs to be a realistic, double-step, hard, landing sound...for each surface type too of course. The sound can do a lot to the whole feeling of jumping too, real important i think.
(You have to be kidding me??)
* Scripted events are very bad, methinks, however there arn't many so its not that big of a deal, at least in the demo. For example, once you pick up the key in the secret room (by the water wheel) a rat comes in there after you...now what is the relationship between the rat and the key? Or is there any, if so what sense does it make? The earthquakes were the other thing....once the player walks into a certain area or performs a certain action an earthquake starts...so it makes me think, is the player somehow connected to these earthquakes? It really needs to be at random or else have them take place at a certain time, rather than what the player does or what area it enters.(THAT RAT LOVES THAT KEY don't you know as to the Earthquakes I guess you never coded anything before have you? And oh my god they made you think isn't that the point
* Its possible to stand on creatures heads...though is amusing, its just silly. When i'm in combat with other AI i tend to use a lot of stealth, like jump around on tables and jump off them and sometimes i accidently jump onto an AI's head... and if an AI is calm, you can jump on their heads and they don't seem to even care. Piggies however are an exception, i like to stand on that big pigs back and pretend i'm riding it (if riding a pigs back could at all be possible, that would totaly rule! ;) ).
After playing with the demo after hours and hours and hours i really get used to the controls and everything...and now i'm just absolutly in love with it! :D
Just a (lot of) few of things that need a bit of work... Stryyder on 11/3/2002 at 18:50
Quote:
Originally posted by Nethawk I'm reposting my opinion here in this new thread only because I feel really really really strongly about this, so be warned;
Pulling the drainplug on Fishtank:
The install ran fine for me on WinME, and that's where the goodness stopped. IMO, the intro cutscene could have used an extra team of animation artists and PROFESSIONAL voice actors to make it look and feel more enticing. There's no in-game save feature (and that's just plain rigoddamndiculous), in-game resolution max is way too low, printed words looked as though I was seeing them through bad eyeglasses, and the movement/actions controls felt like they were conceived by someone who smokes banana peels for inspiration. I didn't see many areas that looked like they had over 100 polys, and small varmints such as mice looked like they glided/floated over surfaces rather than walked on them (is John Romero on the development team for this game by any chance?). I don't know if anyone here has any rats where they live, but I've seen tons of them on the docks in Quebec City, and the largest ones do NOT sound like metal hoofed ungulates.
I don't have to play a whole demo to know when something is subpar. Ten minutes was more enough for me to make a decision. It's coming as soon as I'm finished posting this, and unless I hear news that a major update and patches are released in the future, it will stay off for good. Arx fatalis is a great game idea that was either hastily and/or poorly implemented, or lacked sufficient financial backup. In its present state, Arx Fatalis would have been a great game...two years ago. I expect more from development teams today. At least I'm on cable and didn't waste any dial-up download time to get it.
By the way, the Thief Assassins demo WAS awesome when it came out (in the late nineties no less), and I played it relentlessly before I bought the game. It was great because the controls were overwhelmingly simple, the sounds (if not all voice acting) were superb, and the atmosphere and gameplay was dynamite. I may be seen as unnecessarily harsh on this new title, but why rock the boat if it's better sunk? I expect demos that make me feel as though I'm playing games, not running them through alpha testing. Fishtank, it's bread crumbs for you I'm afraid. Nethawk = impatient moron
This is a tech demo it was free this is an indication of what the game will be when completed and should be taken as such. I am diametrically opposed not only to your opinion but to your methods as well. All of the things you stated in your first paragraph in game default resolution, text font etc can simply be based on the fact that this is a TECH DEMO you are flaming them based on the fact that you believe this is what the final product will look like when you have no basis for that statement. And if you think there were not areas with over 100 polygons you must be smoking fruit peels.
Yes it is rough yes it needs some work to polish it but it does not suck. AND IT DOES HAVE AN IN GAME SAVE FEATURE TRY USING THE READ ME FILE!!!!
Go buy a clue.
