Article: Lunar Software Discusses Their Upcoming SS2 Inspired Indie Title, Routine - by bukary
bukary on 23/6/2013 at 11:38
I am not sure if you noticed another minor "detail" in Jerion's (EM moderator) (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138174) impressions from E3 demo:
Quote:
There are things that irked me. Jumping and climbing appear restricted to predetermined locations. It is set up fairly comprehensively; if you think you ought to be able to jump or climb somewhere you’ll be able to do so. I hope this will change and jumping will become free-form, unrestrained by pre-determined leaping points.
So.... if I remember correctly:
*
Jumping, climbing (with the use of the claw and rope arrows): restricted to some predesigned spots (eg. marked in the demo with the metal grates).
*
Leaning: restricted, only "contextual" (in predesigned spots).
*
Movement on some high surfaces (above the ground): restricted (Garrett is "glued" to the surface).
*
Ability to jump down or fall: restricted (Garrett needs to "unglue" himself with the use of "contextual" button or perform some "contextual" action, eg. 3rd person takedown).
I am not sure if all of these restrictions are in pre-alpha build of the game (or demo) only. If all of them are present in the final version of the game, even this famous "Thief DNA" might be seriously damaged. :erm:
Chade on 23/6/2013 at 11:53
Bukary, your 3rd and 4th points are exactly the same. The only restriction we've been told about moving on elevated surfaces is that you press a button to drop down.
Saying the leaning works in predesigned spots is (I am pretty damn sure) exactly as accurate as saying mantling only worked in predesigned spots. I.e., not accurate at all. I'm potentially quite happy about the new mechanism. It sounds quite similar to the peek ability I suggested earlier, which is more restrictive in some ways, but less restrictive in other ways.
Not sure what the jumping or climbing restrictions are at this stage, but I wouldn't rule out anything from something similar to the way mantling works (mildly bad) to the sort of ad-hoc restrictions that you seem to be assuming (extremely bad).
New Horizon on 23/6/2013 at 12:01
Quote Posted by bukary
I am not sure if you noticed another minor "detail" in Jerion's (EM moderator) (
http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?t=138174) impressions from E3 demo:
So.... if I remember correctly:
*
Jumping, climbing (with the use of the claw and rope arrows): restricted to some predesigned spots (eg. marked in the demo with the metal grates).
*
Leaning: restricted, only "contextual" (in predesigned spots).
*
Movement on some high surfaces (above the ground): restricted (Garrett is "glued" to the surface).
*
Ability to jump down or fall: restricted (Garrett needs to "unglue" himself with the use of "contextual" button or perform some "contextual" action, eg. 3rd person takedown).
I am not sure if all of these restrictions are in pre-alpha build of the game (or demo) only. If all of them are present in the final version of the game, even this famous "Thief DNA" might be seriously damaged. :erm:
This Rope Climbing limitations have already been confirmed by the project lead. It's pretty much a clear sign that the levels were designed before Rope Arrows were added back into the game. I think what is going on is that they are back stepping in order to save face somewhat with the fans with some half hearted additions like the dry ice arrow being converted back into a water arrow, and the rope arrow coming back...only to be more limited in use than the climbing gloves. Their reliance on having the hands and feet interact with the game world seem to be forcing limitations on player control, which seems like TDS all over again, only worse this time.
When I read articles where they have said they read the forums and have listened to the fans, I really have to shake my head. Very little of what I have seen indicates they listened to the fans, not when this new game resembles TDS more than it resembles the original games...ahem...DNA. Like I've said before...Apes share 98% of their DNA with humans, but even that small difference results in two completely separate species. Same thing goes for this new Thief. It's in the same genre, but unless some major changes happen it sure as heck isn't going to be Thief.
The more the EM devs speak, the more disingenuous I find them.
bukary on 23/6/2013 at 18:56
Update from Jerion:
Quote:
Leaning is limited to specified spots, but this is one case where they've also added quite a bit of functionality (they're calling it "Peeking"); this has been covered in the AMA thread. In this case I would take the tradeoff.
Falling by accident from a high surface was impossible, but dropping to the ground (or next level down) can be done at just about any edge if memory serves (go to the edge, hit a button, drop down). Accidentally leaping to one's doom is not supported at this time.
Goldmoon Dawn on 23/6/2013 at 19:04
Like "we" said right away, free form exploration in a new Thief title is dead.
Springheel on 23/6/2013 at 19:37
So since your hands always grasp what you're leaning around (which is probably why you can't lean around bushes), does that mean you can't lean when firing the bow? No more sniping around corners?
Renault on 23/6/2013 at 20:20
Quote Posted by bukary
*
Movement on some high surfaces (above the ground): restricted (Garrett is "glued" to the surface).
*
Ability to jump down or fall: restricted (Garrett needs to "unglue" himself with the use of "contextual" button or perform some "contextual" action, eg. 3rd person takedown).
I don't understand this. Climbing and rope arrowing, I can see EM restricting so the player doesn't get to places they're not supposed to go (it's still laziness and poor level design, but we'll ignore that for now). But to put Garrett on a track and have no danger of falling and/or restricting his vertical movement to a button press? WTF is that? No freeform leaning? Leaning has the most impact on a stealth game (and specifically Thief) than any other type of game. EM's catch phrase of "play how you want to play" is losing meaning by the moment, it should be "play how you want to play, but only after we're done nerfing all of Garrett's abilities so all the 8 year olds can win the game."
I'm trying to stay positive about this game, but the more I hear, it's harder to find something that's satisfying, let alone something to get remotely excited about.
SubJeff on 23/6/2013 at 23:35
A lot of this new stuff putting me off.
Take note EM, I've been one of the most optimistic til now and not being able to fall is basically a crock.
SeriousCallersOnly on 24/6/2013 at 01:24
No falls? Amazing!
[video=youtube;zSGQ5D56NiA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSGQ5D56NiA[/video]
henke on 24/6/2013 at 06:00
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
A lot of this new stuff putting me off.
Take note EM, I've been one of the most optimistic til now and not being able to fall is basically a crock.
I know how you feel. One of the things I liked most about Thief1/2 was going places I wasn't supposed to be. Exploring every nook and cranny of a level. Finding all the crates in a level and stacking them up so I could climb up on a roof I otherwise wouldn't have been able to get to. The feeling of movement in TDP/TMA was completely organic. If a surface was angular, you could mantle it. If a surface was made of wood, you could attach a rope-arrow to it.
In the new game there's just too many artificial constraints. I'm afraid it'll feel more like you're only going where you're supposed to go, and not like you're going where you're
not supposed to go.
I understand that they need to make it the way they did because of (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=141797&p=2195258&viewfull=1#post2195258) technical limitations, but I'm not happy about this trade-off. I'd rather they sacrificed pretty graphics than player freedom.