SubJeff on 6/8/2012 at 14:15
So you won't be buying it because of the art style then. Good to know. Moving on.
That masked ball sounds great. Life of the Party?
This game sounds like Thief on steroids, and I'm sure it's not a coincidence.
faetal on 6/8/2012 at 14:31
I didn't say that - I was just lending some perspective on the topic of stylised art in games with serious gameplay. I have completed Bioshock and I did enjoy it the first time round, but the style jarred a bit. Likewise, I'll almost certainly play Dishonoured and I don't yet know if the style will jar with the game. It's a topic of conversation illustrating a perspective, not an objective statement of criticism against any game.
The masked ball level does sound good. I also like this notion of the game world carrying persistent changes based on the player's style.
SubJeff on 6/8/2012 at 15:05
Quote Posted by faetal
See for me, I can only abide the cartoon / caricature style in a setting whose gameplay and mythology are also cartoon / caricature driven.
Sounds like you can't do with this art style in this sort of game at all. Maybe you shouldn't have phrased it like that.
faetal on 6/8/2012 at 15:17
Do I need to spell out that there are grey areas in the disparity? It's not a binary issue.
For example, I found Bioshock playable, but never lost that vague feeling of there being something off in the style, whereas I couldn't stay interested in Torchlight for more than a few hours as the disparity between the game's story and music and the cute, exaggerated cartoon graphics got too much in the way. It's a set of variables, not an 'if X exists in the presence of Y, I have zero time for it' situation.
Does that make things more clear? I think I've said all I can say about it.
Yakoob on 6/8/2012 at 19:33
I am with Sg3 and faetal, I always found the Bioshock art style just plain
ugly, and the same goes for Dishonored characters (tho the enviornments look great). Basically, word for word this:
Quote Posted by faetal
I consider a stealth / assassination game to be more along the srs bsns vibe and would expect a visual style commensurate with its moodiness. Anything too stylised will prevent me from feeling immersed, which is the problem I found with Bioshock - I felt like the visual style was like plastic wrap between me and the intended mood of the game. I found it very atmospheric, but not too immersive.
Eitherway, I am still looking to get Dishonored on gameplay alone.
Muzman on 7/8/2012 at 06:46
Quote Posted by Sg3
I think that ol' "U.V." has already been pretty much conquered. I've seen plenty of ultra-realistic C.G.I. characters which don't strike me as odd--the only thought which might prevent total immersion is my pleasant surprise that they look so lifelike, but that's hardly U.V. Of course, that's pre-rendered cinematics--gameplay is another story. But something like
Mass Effect does a smashing job of not being remotely U.C., while still being very highly detailed and almost photo-realistic.
Oddly, I've hardly seen any. Even the best ones are still mo-capped marionettes with under animated faces. Mass Effects especially. They don't strike me as odd because they are clearly game characters and completely phony. That's why they don't trouble any Uncanny Valley notions. They don't strike the viewer as real for a second. I accept them only as representations, not actual people. Can still fill in the blanks and relate in other ways, but they're still on the downhill slope of the Valley, like most games.
The most impressively unsettling is LA Noire. Nothing else comes close to date. It's occasionally as though you glimpsed video of a real person's face projected on to a video game character.
Anyway, I'm not going to be the guy who defends Bioshock's designs as I was never the biggest fan. The bump maps were way too coarse for one thing (but that was typical at the time). The models a lot of Popeyes and Olive Oyles. Dishonoured's characters look an order of magnitude more detailed and varied. Only slightly exaggerated by comparison too ( I mean, people do actually have big chins and noses). So I'm not particularly fussed. It seems more like Mass Effect is Hollywood; where everyone is basically good looking, tall and well proportioned. Dishonoured is a Sergio Leone film crammed with character faces gotten by trawling factories and shipyards far from a casting agency and cosmetic surgery (which he did).
None of which is going to talk anyone into liking it, but anyway....
Aren't you guys running low on games to play if you don't like this sort of thing? I know it's not a hard line in the sand or anything. But it seems like you're not left with much at the moment, depending ones level of disdain. The bulk of them some of the worst populist dreck the industry has to offer.
Sg3 on 7/8/2012 at 07:55
Quote Posted by Muzman
Aren't you guys running low on games to play if you don't like this sort of thing?
When I find a game that I like, I play it for years. Right now, I only play a handful of games, but I've been at each one for a long time--at least two of them I've clocked over a thousand hours in.
I suppose you're right about
Mass Effect--as I indicated about
Deus Ex, I tend to not notice technical limitations in graphics, as long as the art style is believable. By the way, it isn't only the faces which get me with the
Dishonored charmodels, or even primarily ...
faetal on 7/8/2012 at 11:30
Quote Posted by Muzman
Aren't you guys running low on games to play if you don't like this sort of thing? I know it's not a hard line in the sand or anything. But it seems like you're not left with much at the moment, depending ones level of disdain. The bulk of them some of the worst populist dreck the industry has to offer.
Actually, there aren't that many games I have come across which feature caricatured design on non-caricatured story & gameplay. Bioshock is only mildly so as the story is slightly campy, but Torchlight very much so. I enjoy Borderlands as the two things mesh and it feels cohesive and immersive - it is the disparity which gets me and few games have it too bad. I'm just slightly concerned about Dishonoured because it ticks all of my boxes, but may end up with that disparity which I am clearly sensitive to (not by choice, just so you understand).
nicked on 7/8/2012 at 11:45
Sounds like you took Torchlight a bit too seriously. For me, the art style just helped sell the impression that it was only a notch more serious than Dungeon Keeper.
Thirith on 7/8/2012 at 11:51
I can imagine that more people will be put off by the Dishonored style - here most people will be willing to give it a chance because of the gameplay, but your average gamer may just look at the trailers and screenshots and react badly to the visuals. Which is fair enough - for a majority of people, realism (or rather Hollywood "realism") is what they know and what they like best, and going for something more stylised is a risk. I just hope they won't lose too many sales because of this, but I think it's a fair discussion to have.
Edit: Personally, I'm not that big a fan of the character art in Dishonored, but I expect it'll grow on me. I definitely like the Steampunk City 17 environments, though!
