ThePhotoshop on 28/5/2012 at 12:42
Quote Posted by henke
Sneaky Bastards did post a thread about their site here when they first got started. Nice site, but honestly I didn't expect it to last long. I thought it would be mostly sort of a fansite, by people oustide the industry looking in, but seeing as they're actually ambitious enough to go out and get interviews with folks like Harvey Smith I'm starting to think they'll have some staying-power.
That's not the (
http://sneakybastards.net/shadesofgrey/trade-secrets/) only interviewee we can get...
Kuuso on 28/5/2012 at 13:02
This game sounds absolutely amazing, but the only thing I'm hesitant about is the aforementioned randomness incorporated into guards. It would be awesome, if it works, but the article makes it sound like it's a % chance of a guard to look at a painting for a number of seconds or stomp on a rat, which very easily becomes part of the patrol routines and not "random". Not sure, if I explained myself very clearly there, but it sounds like they're trying to hype it up for nothing.
It doesn't matter at all, when considering the other facts like the vision system etc. What the hell, a game that promotes stealth and innovates a thief-like system to a better level? It surely must fail somehow.
henke on 28/5/2012 at 15:42
Nice. :)
I liked the write-up on you did on Stolen btw. I played through that game a few years ago and have fond memories of it despite it's flaws.
Yakoob on 28/5/2012 at 20:15
To elaborate my snarky reply from early - I actually welcome this "randomness" especially if it's of an organic and logical nature (randomly stretch, take a quick rest, take a small detour from the path, go for a smoke break etc.) Personally I never liked "stealth games" much because they never felt like I was stealthing, but playing a timed puzzle game - here's where all the "blocks" move at predefined intervals and you have to navigate around them in this one particular way the developer wanted you to. Can you find the solution??
Bringing in more organic randomness, with certain "checks and balances" might force one into unexpected situations and, as been mentioned, thinking and reacting on-the-fly rather than the way the devs intended you to do. Adaptability is a skill of its own.
demagogue on 29/5/2012 at 01:23
Not to jump in with an unsolicited Dark Mod tangent, but to jump in with an unsolicited Dark Mod tangent, the TDM AI have that kind of randomness built in; they randomly go down different paths; they look around at random; they have random actions (like the stretching, scratching, or smoking); random chats if they meet another AI (depending on the mutual relationship they have); they randomly stop at objects and do stuff around them like warm hands at fire, look at a painting, etc...
I guess it's not too off-topic since the way TDM does it can serve as a model for comparison, or if you wanted to see how it actually plays in-game. The TDM AI are more challenging & interesting than the T2 & TDS AI because of that feature anyway. If Dishonored has it, then I approve.
ThePhotoshop on 29/5/2012 at 01:57
Actually I've been meaning to do a writeup of TDM for a while now, but have had trouble getting in touch with its creators. Anyone know where I can reach them?
Renault on 29/5/2012 at 02:42
Uh, they're not exactly in hiding. Try the forums on the their (
http://www.thedarkmod.com) site, or just PM New Horizon/Springheel/Fidcal here at TTLG, they visit/post fairly often.
Papy on 29/5/2012 at 02:45
Quote Posted by faetal
Either that or it means that planning has to be more on-the-fly.
Can you explain what you mean with that? Because "planning" and "on-the-fly" doesn't really go together to me.
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Bringing in more organic randomness, with certain "checks and balances" might force one into unexpected situations and, as been mentioned, thinking and reacting on-the-fly rather than the way the devs intended you to do. Adaptability is a skill of its own.
Unexpected situations happened to me with Thief too, but almost every time I said to myself the reason was because I wasn't careful enough. I never blamed the game for my own failure, only myself. That's why I think Thief is a great game. If the reason I failed was because a guard would turn around randomly, I would have blamed the game and considered the gameplay as shitty. I would certainly considered it more realistic, but still shitty.
Also, since you think Thief is not really about "stealthing", but only a "timed puzzle game", can you describe precisely what you think the gameplay of "stealthing" should be about? Concretely, what do you think we have to do to succeed and what will cause failure?
ThePhotoshop on 29/5/2012 at 03:39
The guards don't just 'turn around randomly'. Anything they do randomly is designed as an opportunity for the player - something that obscures or cancels out their vision cone for a moment (fireplace, stomping a rat, etc). I don't think you're going to run into sudden and unavoidable failures because of it.
Muzman on 29/5/2012 at 05:31
It'd be interesting if guards etc could be distracted by other NPCs generally, like people would be. Even if only to look away for a moment. I guess that's what we're talking about. Then if NPCs moved in partly self directed ways as well no two sneaks would ever be the same.
