Jason Moyer on 27/5/2012 at 19:36
Just the stuff in that article about how their vision cones work with varying sensitivity to light and sound depending on distance and whatnot. So you can still hide in shadows in their peripheral vision or if you're not close to them but you'll be detected if they're close enough to see you.
smallfry on 27/5/2012 at 23:29
Doesn't matter how awesome a stealth system is if the enemies you're trying to get past keep walking the same predictable loops. The sneakybastards article hinted at bad guys who change up their routes (and even have random locations??) so it sounds pretty exciting. Despite my excitement it's hard not to be cynical about it though- before the new Deus Ex came out they were touting intelligent baddies who look behind and stuff (and of course they do, but always at the same exact time and place in their loops - duh!!)
And yeah, really nice site.
Yakoob on 28/5/2012 at 00:06
Man wouldn't it be awesome if we skipped patrol routs and global "unseen / spotted / alarm" phases and just went for a more organic approach of just creating AI agents that move around following a simple guard-like logic of basic "guard these control points / take a leak / food break / occasionally stretch or sit down to rest" combined with actual communication via talking to each other / using radios / using alarm panels and a decent human-like spotting mechanism ("was it a person or just a rat meh im too lazy to investigate" type stuff).
But oh wait, apparently a shitton of developers DID try then and promptly realize that, as cool, complex and realistic of a "system" it was, it simply wasn't fun and the ended up tweaking it until they arrived at the current patrol routs and "global alarm levels."
And from my experience with game design, I do believe the devs when they say "we tried something different but it simply didnt work."
:erg:
Muzman on 28/5/2012 at 00:24
That would be awesomely fun. The trouble usually is no one knows how to make it playable for people apt to feel powerful instantly or they quit and throw their controller at the television.
Oddly there are places in the Hitman games that are laid out quite realistically in terms of guards etc which illustrate horribly just how effective 'a dude standing there' actually is as far as security goes (and thereby why most "stealth" games go for thinly spread guard patrols instead).
Somehow a terribly successful series that one though.
It's more that if you want to have the pure stealth option plausible and even encouraged for the average player then you have to nerf the design to some extent. Well, I say 'have' to; I think a level design philosophy exists to provide all of the above, but no one has the skills and vast time to prototype outside of Valve so they go with something else.
With all the extra trickery and faster more murderous pace I can see this game actually supporting terrifyingly lifelike AI in certain circumstances and not trapping players too often (and they'll probably mix up the design from more action oriented levels to ghosty ones). The potential for emergence is fairly awesome too.
henke on 28/5/2012 at 05:48
Quote Posted by Muzman
Cool. Cool site too.
Who are these people? We must know them!
Sneaky Bastards did post a thread about their site here when they first got started. Nice site, but honestly I didn't expect it to last long. I thought it would be mostly sort of a fansite, by people oustide the industry looking in, but seeing as they're actually ambitious enough to go out and get interviews with folks like Harvey Smith I'm starting to think they'll have some staying-power.
Boxsmith on 28/5/2012 at 06:00
I'm glad Sneaky Bastards is around. Fascinating articles, and I wouldn't have known about some excellent games if not for them. Gunpoint, in particular.
Papy on 28/5/2012 at 06:50
Quote Posted by smallfry
The sneakybastards article hinted at bad guys who change up their routes (and even have random locations??) so it sounds pretty exciting.
If we can't predict things, it means success is more or less based on luck. Personally, I would call that a shitty design.
Yakoob on 28/5/2012 at 06:55
Just like everything in life is 100% luck and personal skill has absolutely nothing to do with anyone's accomplishments, ever.
henke on 28/5/2012 at 08:54
Depends on how the game is designed. Obviously, if the guards in Thief could turn around randomly at any point it would be a game of luck trying to sneak up on one. But in Dishonored it seems like you can always "blink" your way to safety if it seems you're about to get spotted. Just need to always mind your environment and make sure you have a quick way out before you start sneaking up on someone. I believe (hope) the end result will be that you'll need to think on your feet more than in Thief.
faetal on 28/5/2012 at 12:34
Quote Posted by Papy
If we can't predict things, it means success is more or less based on luck. Personally, I would call that a shitty design.
Either that or it means that planning has to be more on-the-fly. Which would make it more like real stealth and less like puzzle stealth, which is essentially the application of a systematic sequence of actions to solve a de facto maze of guards / cameras.
If they manage to pull off what they are suggesting, this has the potential to address many of my gripes about stealth mechanics in games.
