nicked on 19/9/2013 at 12:33
Thing is, yes, it's still basically boxes, just with more static meshes over the top, but it's about reaching the same level of fidelity as the base game. Using Dromed to make a level that looks as good as Thief 2 is not especially difficult. Using UnrealEd to make a level that looks as good as Thief 2 is not especially difficult. Even assuming setting up things like lighting, AI routines etc. wasn't considerably more complex, making a level for Dishonored that would stand up next to the base game would be, if not strictly-speaking much harder, certainly more time-consuming. You can reuse static meshes, sure, but that'll only get you so far before you need something new just to tell your story.
Anyway, we could argue about whether it would be arbitrary-number times more complicated, but the evidence is quite plain. Modern AAA games that have editors/SDKs released do not have much content created for them, because it's more time-consuming than it's worth.
SubJeff on 19/9/2013 at 15:52
I get what you mean but I really think that with the full thing, GOTY edition, there must be so many static meshes you should be able to do all sorts with it, no?
MoroseTroll on 19/9/2013 at 15:54
Quote Posted by nicked
Modern AAA games that have editors/SDKs released do not have much content created for them, because it's more time-consuming than it's worth.
(
http://www.mapraider.com/maps/unreal-tournament-3) That site contains 522 custom maps for Unreal Tournament 3. Yes, those maps are for multi-player only, so they are relatively small, though not all of them. Nevertheless, seems it's not that difficult to create a map for UE3-based game.
Fafhrd on 20/9/2013 at 01:25
Maps != levels.
And 522 maps in 5 years isn't that great, considering that the same site has 1,818 maps for UT2k4, which was only released four years prior to UT3, so roughly twice as many maps per year on average.
Muzman on 20/9/2013 at 04:42
Difficulty might be a factor. But I don't think you see really solid mod scenes around certain games any more. You do see them of course, but they aren't really as big. It's why you see people sticking to things like Source for ten years, because there's ten years worth of stuff to use.
Some companies are trying of course, but it ends up sort of detached like Make Something Unreal, rather than being about a specific game.
There's not that same hothouse vibe where people are looking at the new Quake 2 maps every week and voting them in and out of the server list etc. It's all too diffuse. I suspect people could actually do it in triple A stuff, but there isn't the call for it in the same way as before.
That's the impression anyway.
MoroseTroll on 20/9/2013 at 05:18
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
Maps != levels.
I know. The only reason why I mentioned that number is to prove that if some community is interested in a game, then there will definitely be the user content.
Quote Posted by Fafhrd
And 522 maps in
5 years isn't that great, considering that the same site has 1,818 maps for UT2k4, which was only released four years prior to UT3, so roughly twice as many maps per year on average.
Actually, in 6 years :). Maybe it's because UE3 mapping is more difficult than UE2 mapping, maybe it's because UT3 is younger than UT2, maybe people just love UT2 more than UT3. The only thing that matter is, if a game has its publically available editor, it'll be enhanced and extend by its gamers for many years, no matter how hard the editor is.
june gloom on 20/9/2013 at 06:12
Quote Posted by MoroseTroll
Actually, in 6 years :)
The boost this gives your argument is essentially nil.
MoroseTroll on 20/9/2013 at 06:19
dethtoll: Oh, please don't be so cynical:cheeky:! I believe, 522 maps even for 6 years is still a big number. Let's divide it, say, by 5, and we'll get at least a hundred good FMs for Dishonored in the years to come. Is this bad?
june gloom on 20/9/2013 at 07:19
You're kind of mentally deficient, aren't you?
It's not "bad" -- it's just never going to happen, even with an SDK or a map editor, because FFA multiplayer maps and single player maps for a stealth-based game are fundamentally different things to create, especially when you consider that the level of detail is going to be significantly higher.
Fafhrd on 20/9/2013 at 07:31
Quote Posted by MoroseTroll
dethtoll: Oh, please don't be so cynical:cheeky:! I believe, 522 maps even for 6 years is still a big number. Let's divide it, say, by 5, and we'll get at least a hundred good FMs for Dishonored in the years to come. Is this bad?
You're being
absurdly liberal with your estimates. There will be maybe three quality FMs a year. Levels in Dishonored are huge complex things. It took most of a year for Arkane themselves to get six new levels out, and that was with completely re-using a couple of locations. Admittedly they were also coding in new enemies and abilities and such, but the point largely stands.
