Muzman on 25/1/2013 at 03:54
Yeah, I want to give it a try the other way. There are aspects of the game that make it seem like they don't necessarily expect you to take the higher road. You can be part of this empire's messy last days and it'd still be tonally appropriate: The wrong has already been done and doomed the whole thing anyway. The Outsider standing off and watching/smirking in his detached nihilistic way helps that along.
Anyway
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Because you're not a cartographer? Every area has a map you can find anyway.
Not very good ones and I don't recall any you can take with you. I'm not a cartographer, no. I am supposedly a guy with some brains and knowledge of security considerations. You would be opposed to the game letting me act like it?
zacharias on 25/1/2013 at 05:16
Good writeup Muz. Pretty close to my thoughts. I'm still on the last level and not really compelled to finish it..why is that? Because I enjoyed the early levels a lot. I tried to play stealthy/low chaos when possible, but after a certain point towards the end i just said what the hell and accepted a bloodbath type style to finish. I'm not really sold on effectively punishing the player for playing as a killer, there's surely a more satisfying way to cater to multiple play styles. The way Sam turns on you completely by the end in high chaos felt a bit forced imo.
The game is really fun but I think the first half or so is much more entertaining than the latter half. A plot twist isn't really a proper plot twist if you can see it coming a mile off, the game would have been stronger without this i think. If the player can work out the betrayal it just makes Corvo seem really dumb when he can't, which is obviously not what you want.
Powers: Blink is really really fun, but such a power would compromise a game focused primarily on stealth imo as it takes out the most tense (and in a way engrossing/fun) bits. That's fine I think as long as you acknowledge it and make a superhero game instead of a thief style thing. Which in many ways they did do, whilst also hedging their bets a bit with many stealth elements still present. (On a tangent I'm of the opinion that Deus Ex is overrated because yes you can play it as a shooter or a sneaker, but as a shooter Half-Life is miles better, as a sneaker Thief is miles better..I prefer to have a imo higher quality experience playing the more focused games..)
Possession was also fun. If anything I'd prefer fewer powers though but really well balanced ones, it felt a bit swiss army knife at times.
The lack of an player inventory map did bother me too. I left the markers off but when i turned them on when stuck nothing seemed to change anyway (?) Don't want them anyway. It's part of the fun to plot your route.
Also, something about the combat did not feel right. Why can enemies hit you from what feels like 10 yards away?
So..I am being a bit harsh perhaps. It's only because the games is really really good but just struggles on story and some mechanics. The environments are gorgeous and the 3d exploration was a joy. Really loved the bridge level (despite having no map to look for that power thingy), the brothel level was fantastic too, Boyle Mansion was gorgeous, had a great decadent feel. I feel like I never have to go to Edinburgh after playing this game. If the story and storytelling matched this and they tweaked some mechanics and AI a little more you'd have an absolute classic I feel. At the end of the day I enjoyed it more than Thief 3. So great job Arkane overall.
(The game i really want Arkane to make is a more stealth focused Thiefy thing with cityscape levels and freedom, together with the magic system from Arx Fatalis. You could learn different spells for replayability or perhaps you play as a Thief or a Mage, specialising but with general nod to stealth focus.)
jay pettitt on 25/1/2013 at 10:22
I kinda think trying to approach Dishonored this way or that way is kinda wrong headed. And it's obviously incredibly tempting to do it so, but ~ to my mind at least ~ where dishonoured shines is in allowing you to play whatever way on the fly according to the situation you find yourself in, not to some pre-ordained 'correct' style. It's not a stealth game, or a fighting game. It's a game of infiltration and escape*.
To be sure, this isn't Thief. It lacks the wit, charm, focus, joy, adventure, characterisation, whatever. But it's not formulaic dross and it is genuinely quite good. Which makes it something of a rare gem I reckon.
*which only makes you wonder why you can't carry a friggin' map. Grrrr.
henke on 25/1/2013 at 10:59
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
I kinda think trying to approach Dishonored this way or that way is kinda wrong headed. And it's obviously incredibly tempting to do it so, but ~ to my mind at least ~ where dishonoured shines is in allowing you to play whatever way on the fly according to the situation you find yourself in, not to some pre-ordained 'correct' style. It's not a stealth game, or a fighting game. It's a game of infiltration and escape*.
Word. I don't get people who commit to one playstyle and the quickload as soon as things don't go as they planned, instead of just letting events unfold organically and dealing with the consequences of their mistakes. Moderating your own experience that heavily seems neither fun nor immersive to me.
june gloom on 25/1/2013 at 11:00
Especially since the game punishes you for it by randomizing NPC positions after every quickload.
Thirith on 25/1/2013 at 11:10
Quote Posted by jay pettitt
To be sure, this isn't Thief. It lacks the wit, charm, focus, joy, adventure, characterisation, whatever.
I'd agree on the characterisation (and to some extent the adventure), but for me the game definitely had the rest.
I have to say, though, I played it almost entirely as a sneaker, with very little assassination - and it worked well for me. Perhaps a bit too easy, but out-and-out challenge isn't high up on the list of what I look for in games. (I loved
Demon's Souls mostly for the atmosphere.)
jay pettitt on 25/1/2013 at 11:19
Quote Posted by henke
I don't get people who commit to one playstyle and then quickload as soon as things don't go as they planned, instead of just letting events unfold organically and dealing with the consequences of their mistakes.
Oh I do. In fact I find it insanely hard not to do it. Whether that says something about me being obsessive, whether that's a learned thing from other titles (stealth games especially where you're on a fail state knife edge all the time), or whether that sort of achieving a perfect playthrough shtick is actually a core mechanic of video gaming... I don't know. But it's definitely a thing.
But Dishonored is at its best when you don't do that.
henke on 25/1/2013 at 11:39
Hmm, ok. :erg:
I mean I guess I can see why someone would play that way. Sounds like you get more satisfaction out of solving "the puzzle" of a clean playthrough than you get out of immersing yourself in the world.
Thirith on 25/1/2013 at 11:50
In my case (and I'm definitely in that boat), immersion has a lot to do with me projecting myself into the game, and that usually means acting in ways that gel with my personality. If I were to use all the toys in my toybox, if I were to go wild with all the options a game gives me, I'd no longer be taking the game at face value - I'd be playing it *as a game*, which would immediately screw any sense of immersion. The more I play as myself, the more immersed I likely to feel, by and large.
gunsmoke on 25/1/2013 at 13:07
Just wanted to say that I used to be quite bad about constant and furious quickload abuse, FarCry changed my ways. Dethtoll can say what he wants about FC, but that game made me a much better gamer overall. It broke some old bad habits, encouraged me to experiment, and demanded perfection. I need to reinstall sometime soon.
