Psychomorph on 30/11/2012 at 17:33

---

:laff:

This is so true, it's ridiculous.


Villain: "Ohhh, mean avenger, don't kill me don't kill me, you will get the BAD ENDING!! You don't want this to happen, right? You don't want the girl to be in danger right? You can't kill me, YOU CAN'T KILL ME, HAHAHA"

Corvo: *looking sad, puts the villain carefully to sleep and wishes him sweet and harmless dreams*

ToolHead on 6/12/2012 at 23:13

---

FOV now goes to 110 in the options menu. Sweet. :D

This calls for yet another replay.

Muzman on 24/1/2013 at 07:33

---

Alrighty, I finally finished this up. There will be spoils.
In short, it's very good but I kind wish it was a bit...more. Even more detail in general would have helped without specifically making it have more maps or missions, but I wouldn't sneeze at those either.

It's definitely not Thief and not really designed to be Thief really. Which I know everyone has said already, but I don't think it really supports Thief like play even as a true option very consistently. The sound, light and AI aspects aren't precise enough. But it's got other things on its mind.
It still has things like blind AIs and stuff, which we've come to expect. In this it does stick out a bit more since one does tend to expect guard posted at watch stations expressly designed for such things to notice sinister looking fellows crouched on rooftops in broad daylight only 50 metres away. And large pipes on the side of buildings and up next to the ceiling are the new 'man sized airconditioning duct' aren't they.

Not that I'm complaining really. This game really did remind me how long it's been since I played a game with such a wide variety of mechanical options and really went out of its way to support them without it seeming like "you arrive at a wall with a locked door, an aicronditioning duct and a culvert underneath it. Since you didn't take swimming, which of the two options would you like to take?" after a while. For that we must be thankful.
The levels are beautifully realised and highly variable. I didn't feel like I was seeing the same kinds of spaces and the same kinds of challenges over and over again. Structurally it's pretty much Deadly Shadows meets Hitman. But they went all out on the design so it at least looks fantastic pretty much every direction you point yourself.
But, coming back to the initial point, for a game that tries so hard to imply a big city and lots going on just out of reach (and often succeeds) it's all the times that it didn't do this that I noticed the most.

Some of this stuff is just in the writing, which seems like virtually a freebie. So you end up in a loyalist plot apparently consisting of nobody and have to do all the dirty work. I mean all of it. There's barely a hint that there's anything else involved. There are mentions of spies and agents of course, but they all seemed to drift away after a while. Even a "many Bothans died to bring us this information" or two would have been something.
You being a preposterous solo act is the sort of thing that works on the page or in a comic (or in most video games), but it's actually to the game's credit that I felt those long hikes to the target and theeen having to do the mission and hiking back. I really wasn't very thoroughly briefed or aidied and basically at the mercy of where Samuel dropped me. And they're sending me out to do another one right now?!
There's two prongs to this awkwardness, one is character and the other is the mechanics of dumb console BS (which has basically become dumb gaming BS by default).

Mechanical stupidity goes like this: you don't need maps or motivation when you have floaty guide text telling you what to do, so it doesn't get written. I understand this, but I just wish they'd gone the extra mile. If you're playing it on very hard, with all guides switched of (like you should be) it's mechanically more difficult but also makes a lot less sense. Why don't I have a map? Why aren't I prepared? A lot of the information in the game is like this, and it's not set out in a way so that you are figuring things out or discovering things either. The 'clues' and so on straight up tell you stuff. You're lurching from knowing nothing about some aspect, to knowing exactly with very little inbetween. So I'm saying, it's a bit of a problem in general, but a particular problem for folks like us. The game's flow of information is designed with that full interface in mind (even though it's silly handholding the world should rightly be rid of). The high and unassisted difficulty level isn't really supported in the writing, content and design and probably resting on you trying it in a second playthrough or something. Which is a pity.

Then we get to the thing of motivation, character and player agency, which was similarly inconsistent. In basic terms, why is Corvo doing any of this? Sure he wants to get revenge on the Regent, restore Emily to the throne, get his reputation back etc. But he could take the direct route if he wanted. Why is he bumping off these people Havelock and Pendleton want done? This is straight up murder he is being asked to do, of people he doesn't know and who have probably done nothing to him (except the High Overseer, I think. Have to watch the opening again). And what's being asked is incredible. Suicidal even, if it weren't for the fact he's a developing black magic wizard with super powers. This is something no one knew, including himself, when he was rescued. So, you know, good thing they they picked to right guy to rest the entire scheme on!

Yeah, plot convenience is nothing new in the world, I know. I'm not even saying that any of this is bad or wouldn't work as a plot. Just put it in there! Havelock and co didn't really sell me on why these people have to die, and so I didn't kill most of them. Even with the choice being there they should have been really driving it home why they had to go and how this will lead to my ultimate revenge every chance they got. This not only motivates me/Corvo but cements the place in the cause itself better (which I really didn't think should be taken as a given). Instead, mostly vague platitudes and gratitudes about 'the cause' and loyalty and whatnot. Meh. Revenge needs passion.

Garrett is a really well motivated, and self motivated, character. Even if you think his actions and motivations don't make a lot of sense in hindsight, he tells you all about what he's going to do, why he's going to do it, how he's going to do it, why he has to do it that particular way, what he's up against etc.
Corvo pretty much just follows instructions, taken from one thing to the next; dropped at inconvenient location; not knowing exactly where to go or what he must face. Again, this would be fine if it were written in better. Just acknowledging this stuff matters but we're stuck without it makes such a difference.
Also Corvo being such a blank starts to hurt matters here too. Actually it's not that he's a total blank. It's more that he gets pivotal character building decisions in a tiny number of instances, despite there being plenty of places to put them or where it would have been nice to have them. It doesn't have to be Human Revolution. Most of them would require just a little more writing and voice acting to pull off. They saved them all for his interactions with Emily mostly.
This goes to much that has been written about blank characters in video games and they are often more a of hindrance than a help and it really seems true here. This is a horrible horrible story, set in a horrible situation with a character doing some really dark shit. For a game all about player agency the lack of much character agency , phony or otherwise, started to get really frustrating.

One place I really wanted it, which would be a bit complex to put in admittedly - but I know all of you wanted this too - was fucking Pendleton! What a genius. Make me fight a duel for him. What I really wanted more than anything when I came back was; he says "You stood for my honour and for that I'm grateful" or whatever and up comes a bevvy of options. 'hold your blade to his throat', 'punch him in his smug fucking face, then kick him when he's on the ground', 'knee him in the balls' ' Smile and say "Once this is all over, if you ever speak to me or try any bullshit aristo leverage on me or the Empress in waiting I will reunite your fucking family. Do you understand?"
This should all happen in front of Havelock too. Because of course, had Corvo lost or things gone horribly wrong, Corvo Attano turning up at a Boyle party carrying a note with a Pendleton seal isn't suspicious at all! nonono.
Instead you just have to suck it up, like everything. In fact, that would have been a good turning point as by then it was becoming really obvious I was the bloody errand boy.

Anyway there's other niggles: several instances of getting all jazzed about some big explorathon level, only to do some stunt and it's basically over (The Regent himself was like this). We really will never see the like of The Bank or Life of the Party again, will we. Sigh. Or the Boyle party. That was surely designed for one of those school maths exam problems where you get not quite enough information to eliminate two of them and have to logic it out. But instead you get some lush a drink and she straight up tells you (at first I was sure she must be lying. But nope, there it was in the objectives as soon as she said it). It seemed like they were going to dive into some complex stuff but backed off at various points. In the last mission too, as Samuel is pulling the boat in he says these heavily leading things about how you decide what happens and which players are inside etc which sounds so much like a set up for a Deus Ex ending, like maybe you meet Pendleton or Martin first and they try and cut a deal, give you other options. Or maybe you find Emily and she steers your plans some other way (maybe she's started taking this whole regal murder thing to heart and it's a little disturbing. Probably would seem a bit controversial I guess) etc etc. But nope. Havelock kills them all. The end.

Oh well. Fun game, looks nice. Definitely brings the Immersive Sim beat back far more than Bioshock's delusions of grandeur. I'll have to try it again. I only ever used Blink and Possession really. None of the others were terribly interesting. I had so many runes at the end it was hilarious.

Jason Moyer on 24/1/2013 at 16:28

---

Because you're not a cartographer? Every area has a map you can find anyway.

froghawk on 24/1/2013 at 23:20

---

Play the game in high chaos. The last level is quite different and much more interesting, and features character development, encounters and choices you don't get in the dull and easy low chaos version of the level, which basically feels like a tacked on afterthought. Not to mention that the very end of the level actually can go a number of different ways in the high chaos version...

For a game that tries to convince you to be a pacifist, they certainly seem to have put a lot more effort into the lethal side of things. Which isn't to say that it doesn't play well as a nonlethal stealth game - it does. Ghosting it is fun, and you have sleep darts, nonlethal takedowns, blink, possession, and bend time to play with. But playing it lethal, you have a sword, a gun with upgrades and two ammo types, two types of crossbow ammo plus upgrades, lethal takedowns, blink, possession, devouring swarm, bend time, windblast, shadow kill, bloodlust, rewire tools, grenades, mines, and a way cooler ending sequence. It's a testament to the game that both approached are equally fun.