gunsmoke on 23/10/2012 at 15:26
Quote Posted by catbarf
Guards can follow you through loading areas, which I thought was a nice touch.
No shit?! Nice. Only shortcoming to the load portals of Thief: Deadly Shadows, imho. I cannot remember, did Oblivion allow for friends and/or enemies to chase/follow you through load portals? I know they could travel through them, but don't remember if they could come for you specifically.
gunsmoke on 23/10/2012 at 15:42
Quote Posted by Brethren
Still, I think if you start giving Garrett supernatural powers, you're changing a lot of what Thief is about.
Hahaha! What!? The entire Thief Universe is centered around 'powers'. Glyphs, Keepers, wands, magic arrows, mages, and Garrett himself has a supernatural ability to hide in shadows.
And I am with SubJeff in this discussion. Every thing he has said so far is completely how I feel.
Oh, @ driver; what do you mean exactly when you say 'hunt for the code in the paintings' when you are referring to SS2. I don't get what you mean.
Jason Moyer on 23/10/2012 at 15:45
I find myself also agreeing with SubjEff despite the intense pain it's causing in every joint of my body.
Renault on 23/10/2012 at 16:09
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
Hahaha! What!? The entire Thief Universe is centered around 'powers'. Glyphs, Keepers, wands, magic arrows, mages, and Garrett himself has a supernatural ability to hide in shadows.
You need to read better. I never said there wasn't magic in the Thief Universe. I said Garrett didn't have supernatural powers, which he doesn't. WTF does is ever state that he has a 'supernatural ability to hide in shadows?" He was taught by The Keepers to be stealthy, and that's it. Play the training mission again sometime. Even if you argue that he's carrying around "magic arrows" (which is pretty weak), that's got nothing to do with his abilities. These are freely available tools which can be used by anyone in The City.
And whatever magic there is in the Thief Universe pales in comparison to Corvo teleporting around at will, looking through solid walls, possessing animals, and yes, even stopping time. I can't believe there's even a comparison. :p
Phatose on 23/10/2012 at 16:14
Quote Posted by Malf
Just completed it, and loved every second, but...
I completed the game without killing anyone, of this I am positive, because none of my mission summary screens said that anyone died. The only fail states I had were a 1 alert guard in the Hiram Burroughs mission and the Flooded District / Daud mission, and I re-did both of those immediately after discovering I'd alerted someone.
I even checked the Mission Stats, and not a single mission reports a death, although the very first one report 1 alert.
Yet I didn't get the Ghost or Clean Hands achievements.
Bah.
Ah well, at least I know I did it.
Did you
KO Granny rags during the sequence in the flooded district return? For some reason, KOing her costs you ghost and clean hands - all you can do is steal the key and run.Edit: On the powers thing, lets maybe forget about thief and just deal with the main problem. The AI is programmed to be blissfully unaware that you have those powers. While I can understand the guards being unaware you can teleport or jump into a man's skin - especially if they've never even been able to see you - even the other supernaturals act like you're just some dude. The assassins blink, but they don't seem to have or use dark vision, or even any idea that you might have it.
The thief comparisons are beating around the bush. The issue is that the game world has security setups for a normal human, not a supernatural assassin. It just so happens Garrett is a perfect example of the kind of skilled normal human the AI and setup is designed to deal with.
They probably would've done better to have an 'outing' of your powers to the enemies late in the game, or at least some mechanism to let the opponents get an idea what you can do and start putting together countermeasures for it. Or at least let
Daud's men act like they know you can do that kind of shit.
gunsmoke on 23/10/2012 at 16:22
We'll just have to agree to disagree. No harm, no foul.
On the shit like Blink and options, I am shocked that jtr7 posted such a nice post. I agree with him on several points! I am all for having additions and powers/features.
3rd person that is switchable? No big deal, just don't use it if you don't like it. Affects nothing (though in T3 it is arguable that its very existence negatively affected that game's movement due to Garrett having a 'bone structure' since there was a 3p cam. Having the ability to teleport isn't your thing? Don't use it. I have talked to several peeps who ignored it in critical situations. They only used it when just dicking around just making it easier to mess around looking around, saving time, etc. Same with other powers. Just appreciate that they are there for other gamers or even yourself for adding a new twist in a later play through. They just open up options, without them it limits you to more skill based gameplay but you can use them if you want to rock and roll too.
Like jtr7 said, unless the game itself (like level layout, gameplay, so on) was designed to be reliant upon these additions and options, it matters not that they are there. A well designed game will be able to be completed without even giving them a thought, but be enhanced and arguable more fun for some people if they do get used.
SubJeff on 23/10/2012 at 16:41
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
I find myself also agreeing with SubjEff despite the intense pain it's causing in every joint of my body.
Intense pain you say?
I guess today is turning out alright after all.
SubJeff on 23/10/2012 at 16:50
Quote Posted by Brethren
I said Garrett didn't have supernatural powers, which he doesn't.
Interesting.
I did a poll on this in Thief Gen. (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128647)
About 15% disagreed with you. I voted for skill and training but the more I think about it the more I think he's got some magical powers.
Renault on 23/10/2012 at 19:35
See, now I like to think of it as 85% agreed with me. :cool:
A key difference too is, even if Garrett was enhanced by some type of Glyph magic (which there really doesn't seem to be any solid evidence of that I can see), the player never "activates" or "triggers" any of this while playing. Playing Corvo on the other hand, you have to consciously make the decision to blink or stop time or throw a gust of wind by pressing a key or button.
So, in other words, the process of "using a power" never comes into play during a session of Thief.
SubJeff on 23/10/2012 at 21:13
True and true.
Gawd Thief is awesome isn't it? I really hope they do a good job with Thief 4.
